THE DEITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BASED ON THE PROCESSION.
The
SUPREME DEITY OF THE SPIRIT is clearly established by the procession of
the Spirit. The expression, through which we think, whenever we direct
attention to this doctrine, is the designation THE SPIRIT OF GOD. Like
the analogous designation “the Son of God,†it sets forth a unique
relation, or a personal distinction, before any work was done. And as we
say that the only Son is supreme God, not although He is the Son, but
because He was begotten of the Father; so we say that the Spirit is
supreme God, not although, but because He proceedeth from the Father and
the Son.
The following fivefold line of proof, when carried out
to its legitimate consequences, and all taking for granted the
procession from the Father and the Son, furnishes conclusive proof of
the supreme Deity of the Holy Spirit:
The incommunicable acts of creation and providence ascribed to the Spirit.
Divine attributes ascribed to Him.
Divine honours and worship paid to Him.
The co-ordinate rank in which He is placed with the Father and the Son.
The name of God indirectly given to Him.
| 8435
|
Forums / Main Forum / Fellowship Amoung Foes
|
on: September 23, 2006, 09:23:41 AM
|
I think everyone is on the right track on this one. IMO, the key to
fellowship with others is to make sure we are in worship of the same
Jesus. This is easy to ID when one is talking to a morman of a Jahovahs
Witness. They are not in worship is the same Jesus so fellowship cannot
take place. Now, inside the Christian community it is indeed much
harder. This is why doctrine in so important. Can we have fellowship
with one who believes in works for salvation for example? I can only
give you my opinion on this as to what has happened to me in my life. I
grew up in an Assembly of God church that preached works. I felt works
was part of the walk in reguards to salvation. When I started to dig
into the truth and found out it was indeed grace alone, and after
talking with the church leadership on their incorrect view on the
security of a believer, I left that Church because of a false doctrine
being taught. Now, can I have fellowship with that group of wonderful
people? Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense of the Christ that they
worship, because they do believe in the same Jesus. No is the fact that
if I indeed do go to that church, then I am supporting a false message
which we are warned against in the Bible (sorry, cant remember the
verse). So, in the bigger picture, as far as being a Christian
community, they do have my support and fellowship, but as far as an
individual, I can not because they are preaching a message that is
incorrect. This is where the essentials become so important.
Yes,
i have personal experience also, although it is more on the area of
rubbing shoulders with some of these people. The problem is not what
they do as much as what they think. You can do some of the things rite
that will effect change on some level of your life. This can be
accomplished through accountability, group therapy, being obsessed with
the details of a particular delima or a struggle in a bad habit. Focus
on healing, becoming moral, responsible, and even having a family that
is well adjusted. But really is this the goal of the church to
accomplish these very good things? It seems to me that there is a
ceiling on this kind of society. The ceiling is what kind of behaviour i
have rather than having a spiritual fellowship in the unity of the
Spirits work in deliverance. Deliverance from sin comes with a set of
freedoms that bust the ceiling. Deliverance from sin is when what goes
on in my heart is not what i can do to change my heart but is more of an
indirect method of the working of the Spirit and the word. It really is
being able to look at any system of man am have a suspicion as to its
ability to accomplish what only God can do apart from any human will. The
paradigm of deliverence is focusing on my inabliity to worship, love ,
have control or any other delima of the will, to accomplish my
intentions. It really is growing past all of the bad habits , so that in
the senses there is a renewed experience of emotional wholeness only
accomplished by going beyond the ability to work up the experience apart
from meditation and prayer. Those who go the road of calvinsim will
begin to have a fellowship with the Holy Spirit so that the way they
view things is not through some group therapy or some human wisdom,
although these things are good they are not the best. So really until we
get the tunnel vision of trusting in God alone, decrying human
acheivement, decrying change brought on by a fellowship of man, and
decrying getting to a platue of health, we will not understand that
there are persons of spiritual world paradigms who speak , assure,
grant, bless, share, console, sustain,control, moving us along in the
unseen, viewing everything as if we were in a heavenly mindset so that
we are carried above what human wisdom has to offer as freedom and we
are carried along by unseen powers, being deeply affected through
revelation, gloring in our total depravity and Christ life of pure grace
of imputation. Seeing the imputed paradigm as our renewed spiritual
growth accessed by prayer and meditation.
|
 Reply
 Quote
 Notify
|
|
8436
|
Forums / Theology Forum / Salvation
|
on: September 23, 2006, 08:55:35 AM
|
mbg
You
seem to be one who thinks of the Bible as the source from which flows
God. I don't and doubt I ever did. Boxing in God seems a strange thing
to me. Seems rational to me that those who do try to box God in do it
for reason's of wanting to define God and then demanding other's
obedience to that god.
Please don't judge me. Judge yourself if
you wish. Don't hide behind words you find in the Bible either that you
thinks gives justice to your thought's about who I trust and don't. I'm
ok with your thinking for in the end it isn't about what we think. I
would think even you could see that.
I'm not trusting in my
trusting God as a thing that gets me anywhere. Do you grasp that? Even
if I said I wasn't trusting God it wouldn't get me anywhere. Do you
grasp that also? I'm where I am and will be where I'm going by the will
of God most likely, if that is how God does things. I'm not worrying
about it since I didn't worry about getting put on this earth in the
first place.
First i am confused about what God you believe in. I
am sure it is a god of mystery. A god that no one can understand, know,
or who is as impersonal as a rock. See thats the difference between
your god and my God. My God is as personal as taking on my sin without
it being His sin, suffering in the flesh and understands that i am weak.
My God is in control of the universe and is working all things out for
my good. Your god does not go farther than the end of your nose. The
vacum you leave in mystery is for yourself to fill. Thats why you live
in a paradigm that is so ugly and mean. Man is a skunk in his sinful
state.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
|
8437
|
Forums / Main Forum / Does Dilbert Exist?
|
on: September 23, 2006, 08:48:09 AM
|
Tom
My
reference about homosexual and alcohlic was in reply to what Pete said
on the program about me. He suspects that I'm in a group which might
come under one of the above catergories.
I wonder if you can see a
difference between ideas and the people who have ideas? I ask this
because of what mbg claims about me. I don't have venom towards people,
God, etc.... but thier ideas and or insistence on speaking for God to
the point of being God in a sense.
No i think you are wrong dd,
see what i believe is who i am. What you believe is who you are. Thats
why we disagree. You are rite tho. We stand on different sides of the
great gulf. I hope you come to His side.
| 8460
|
Forums / Main Forum / Dreams...again
|
on: September 19, 2006, 05:53:22 PM
|
I
think dreams are so inter related to our everyday experience that having
them can have a profound effect on our general disposition for awhile. I
think dreams reflect the anxiety we experience. From my own experience
if i am very anxious then the dreams seem to double that experience. It
as if i were talking to myself in my sleep through my dreams and
enforcing the anxiety the anxious state of my mind.
Then there are
the dasaviews that i have had. It is weird because i about 5 of them in
the last 10 yrs. So when i have a bad dream , i am thinking in my sleep i
hope this is not a dasaview. OK so i am supper sensitive, give me the
benifit of the doubt. 
Any way what has helped me is getting my heart in a joyful state before
going to sleep which for some reason helps in not having night mares.
Maybe what i am saying is that some kinds of dreams come from a mind
that is kinda lazy in controlling the thought life , so the mind is
going to go astray in our sleep. If we could take captive every thought
then maybe what anxiety we are going through would be lessoned and we
would not be so upset in our sleep so that we make our dreams an outlet.
And
then there is the spiritual aspect of dreams, could we be attacked by
Satan in our dreams? Just because we have a holy thought life does not
keep us from having nightmares. We could be going through some changes
of our circumstances, and we could be going through some trials with
people ,circumstances, or the death of a loved one. So there is a real
possibility that it could be an evil attack on our minds. Well the
faster we wash our minds out wit h the word the less the night mares
will hang around. The psalmist considered feeling safe to include in our
sleep. So he meditated himself to sleep and the first thought from his
mind was in meditation. He even meditated in a light sleep. That shows
that there is a real struggle spiritually even in our sleep.
| 8461
|
Forums / Theology Forum / 2 Peter 1:10
|
on: September 19, 2006, 05:11:31 PM
|
11
Pet. 5. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your
faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6. and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7. and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8.
For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you
neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ.
9. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10.
Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about
His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things,
you will never stumble;
Here is what we are to add. The first
being moral excellence which springs out of faith. Faith is a gift of
God given to us at salvation. We are made alive by the Spirit, He is
like the wind who comes and regenerates those whom the Father has
chosen. We are made alive and just like the wind is not seen so we will
not see the second death. Our faith is in Chirst. He is the object of
our faith. The more we mortify the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit and
the word the more we will focus on the person of Christ. THe more we
understand who Christ is and what He has done the greater our faith in
Him will be. That will be the reason we live a moral life, knowing that
we cannot keep the ten commandments in ourselves we go to Christ when we
fall short and realize that He kept them perfectly. We understand that
we could never be righteous in ourselves , because when we see the law
we are convinced that we fall short of the standard, when we rest in
Christ work we get better.
The knowlege we have when we get better
is from a spiritual knowlege. It is a divine light. It is from our
source who is Christ, who reveals to us His will by making us rejoice in
Him and the truth. We rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory,
that is the glory of Christ, and in rejoicing in Him we begin to taste
that His truth is more than just an intellectual stimulus but it is a
pleasurable desire to glorify Him and it comes from the knowlege we
recieve from the word and the Spirit.
The more divine light that we
get in our understanding as a result of resting in Christ the more self
control we will have. Because we will be controlled more and more by the
Spirit. Be not drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit. The s5.
Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith
supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6. and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7. and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8.
For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you
neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ.
9. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10.
Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about
His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things,
you will never stumble; Spirit will cause us to walk in His light by
convicting us of sin and by all of the graces we recieve from Him in the
knowlege we get as a result of resting in Christ work alone. THe more
grace we recieve the more we are going to be self controled. The less we
will be guilty, the more our inward parts will come in line with our
outward actions. There will be less hyprocrisy as a result of us living
in grace and not guilt. This will produce in us a profound sense of the
greatness of God. We will live in the reverence for God because we will
be more and more inclined to seek Him and understand His attributes. The
more we focus on the greatness of God the more godliness will be
evident. Then we will love others. This is the end, that is being others
centered. Giving to the pour, helping the little ones, being available
to help our brothers. It will be a natural flow out of our election. Our
election will become so real to us that we will begin to rejoice in one
sheep being added. Our sight will not be carnal but spiritual and we
will know who God is and we will see God, we will have a greater
spiritual sense of sight and touch and taste and feel.
The
Holy Spirit knows us better than we know ourselves. That is he prays on
our behalf with words that cannot be expressed. It is not the Spirit
who is not know to us by His working in us but it is us who do not
understand the Holy Spirits work in us. We are so blind to His speaking
to us and what that grace we have as a result of His working in us.
Because we do not think spiritually, we tend to think of Him as a force
because of our sin and our lack of trust in His work in us by grace ,
and we do not enjoy the fellowship wit h Him as our comforter that we
could if we understood His work in us more and if we were more in tune
with our inabilty and His ability to perform. Our faith in ourselves
hinders us from experienceing fellowship with Him because we fail to
place our trust in Christ work. The Holy Spirit lust for control in us.
He desires to inflame our desires for Christ. He puts in us a joy that
is beyond the circumstances. He communicates to us by gracing us with
these pleasures. We are as it were incaculated in the God head, having
the work of the Trinity securing us a peace that is supernatural, and
the Holy Spirit works to bring us into this glory through the work of
Christ on our behalf. We are caught between the pain of being in this
world and the experience of fellowshiping with the Father , Son and
Spirit, in a very human paradigm. There is a sense in which what we
experience on the inside from our delima in the world affecting us and
the work of the Spirit renewing us in each of the delimas and in each of
the inward experiences that grows our faith in a personal enlightened
way. We look at the ugliness we possess and we are overcome with the
Spirits lusting in granting us grace that drives us into the heavenlys.
This process is such a singular path that we have no human goodness to
elevate our intellectual goodness, but we are cast on Christ in a very
humbling way, and yet in such a fellowship with the Father through the
Spirit that out of that tension we long for heaven when all the tension
will be eradicated.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
8462
|
Forums / Theology Forum / 2 Peter 1:10
|
on: September 19, 2006, 04:35:38 PM
|
11
Pet. 5. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your
faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6. and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7. and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8.
For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you
neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ.
9. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10.
Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about
His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things,
you will never stumble;
Here is what we are to add. The first
being moral excellence which springs out of faith. Faith is a gift of
God given to us at salvation. We are made alive by the Spirit, He is
like the wind who comes and regenerates those whom the Father has
chosen. We are made alive and just like the wind is not seen so we will
not see the second death. Our faith is in Chirst. He is the object of
our faith. The more we mortify the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit and
the word the more we will focus on the person of Christ. THe more we
understand who Christ is and what He has done the greater our faith in
Him will be. That will be the reason we live a moral life, knowing that
we cannot keep the ten commandments in ourselves we go to Christ when we
fall short and realize that He kept them perfectly. We understand that
we could never be righteous in ourselves , because when we see the law
we are convinced that we fall short of the standard, when we rest in
Christ work we get better.
The knowlege we have when we get better
is from a spiritual knowlege. It is a divine light. It is from our
source who is Christ, who reveals to us His will by making us rejoice in
Him and the truth. We rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory,
that is the glory of Christ, and in rejoicing in Him we begin to taste
that His truth is more than just an intellectual stimulus but it is a
pleasurable desire to glorify Him and it comes from the knowlege we
recieve from the word and the Spirit.
The more divine light that we
get in our understanding as a result of resting in Christ the more self
control we will have. Because we will be controlled more and more by the
Spirit. Be not drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit. The s5.
Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith
supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6. and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7. and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8.
For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you
neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ.
9. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10.
Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about
His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things,
you will never stumble; Spirit will cause us to walk in His light by
convicting us of sin and by all of the graces we recieve from Him in the
knowlege we get as a result of resting in Christ work alone. THe more
grace we recieve the more we are going to be self controled. The less we
will be guilty, the more our inward parts will come in line with our
outward actions. There will be less hyprocrisy as a result of us living
in grace and not guilt. This will produce in us a profound sense of the
greatness of God. We will live in the reverence for God because we will
be more and more inclined to seek Him and understand His attributes. The
more we focus on the greatness of God the more godliness will be
evident. Then we will love others. This is the end, that is being others
centered. Giving to the pour, helping the little ones, being available
to help our brothers. It will be a natural flow out of our election. Our
election will become so real to us that we will begin to rejoice in one
sheep being added. Our sight will not be carnal but spiritual and we
will know who God is and we will see God, we will have a greater
spiritual sense of sight and touch and taste and feel.
| 8475
|
Forums / Main Forum / Emergent Church
|
on: September 15, 2006, 08:36:59 PM
|
Made up scenario--- If you forced your wife
to love you, would you really feel like she was loving you? Wouldn't
you KNOW it was fake and forced? In your opinion is forced love real
love? There are
two kinds of theological tendencies in this whole marriage love. If you
believe that in order for your will to be at liberty that you must be
able to have good on one side and evil on the other there is not
tendency toward either side so that you can determine yourself the
choice that you want to make. This is not a free will. This is no will
at all. In this paradigm there really is no will being exercised.
Liberty desiring one thing over another so that the object you desire is
what you get. The view of the mind of the object and the degree of its
pleasure makes the possibilty for the will to act on the object. The
will does not determine the choice of the object but the mind does. The
will is the instrument of the mind. This difference has a great impact
on how one views his practical choices including marriage. If you belive
that liberty is the will subsisting between good and evil without any
inclination to either one and that is freedom then you are going to
place the power of choice on the object because the will has no power to
choose in itself. Your believing in the arminist view of liberty will
work out in you marriage. You will sorta let go and let God. And that
will be the paradigm that you think is liberty. Liberty in the
calvinistic fashion is choosing acording to what pleases you most. So
there is no room for the object of be an excuse for your choosing. The
focus will be on the inside, on the motives, on the heart. It will not
be on the power of the object as a focus. So you will be free to love
because you will not be concentrating on the physical and swollowing a
camel while slapping at a nat. There is more liberty in heaven where
there is no evil then there is on earth where there is evil.
| 8485
|
Forums / Main Forum / Encouragement From Martin Luther
|
on: September 13, 2006, 06:26:57 PM
|
"We have the gift of an inner liberty so far-reaching
that we can choose either to accept or reject the God
who gave it to us, and it would seem to follow that the
Author of a liberty so radical wills that we should be
equally free in our relationships with other men.
Spiritual liberty logically demands conditions of outer
and social freedom for its completion." Edmund A. Opitz
Human is earth's Choicemaker. Psalm 25:12 He is by
nature and nature's God a creature of Choice - and of
Criteria. Psalm 119:30,173 His unique and definitive
characteristic is, and of Right ought to be, the natural
foundation of his environments, institutions, and re-
spectful relations to his fellow-man. Thus, he is orien-
ted to a Freedom whose roots are in the Order of the
universe.
- from The HUMAN PARADIGM Psalm 25:12 Joel 3:14 KJV
Inner liberty? Sounds like we have our own righteousness. Wow what
misery! Our humanity is not a positive it is a delima. We are so evil
that we are incapable of choosing any good. Thats the gospel, we have
someone who has was perfect in all of his choices. He had perfect
liberty not in possession of sin, and one day we will have perfect
liberty in choosing on the pleasure of Christ. To choose between evil
and good is not liberty it really is no choice at all. Dont decieve
yourselves because the only time you exercise liberty is when you reach
out to the object. And if you think that man has liberty in that choice
then go ahead and believe it while man is really in bondage to sin and
cannot choose any thing good even tho he exercises liberty in choosing.
|
|
Reply
Quote
Notify
|
|
8486
|
Forums / Main Forum / Encouragement From Martin Luther
|
on: September 13, 2006, 05:17:51 PM
|
Wow what a deep understanding of justification and how to rest in Christ from our works. Another
reason is that what ever we do is not good enough because it is mixed
with sin and so we really all should believe that we are the cheif of
sinners. In that mindset knowing that our works are filthy rags in
ourselves and only acceptable because of Christ we can rejoice that we
have such a valueble blood bought salvation , which is more valueble
than rubies. There is nothing to compare with His work not even us
working. We really should spend all our days in constant joy, and
thanksgiving that we are already seen as living in the present as if we
had already recieve our future glorified state. There really is an
uncrossable gulf between us , satan and his children. We have all power
in Christ. We are always the victors, even when things look absolutely
dark, we still can trust that Christ will be our victory, and what we
have waiting we will long for more knowing that heaven is our real reward.
| 8490
|
Forums / Main Forum / Falling Away
|
on: September 12, 2006, 10:49:26 PM
|
Even by the standard of the christian religion no one really does know
ones standing before the God of christianity. Unless you throw out the
part about your Lord telling some to depart on that special day. So with
that in mind why all the stuggling?
I
am not saying that dilbert. What i am discussing is this problem of
someone apostizing. That opens a who new set of questions that one has
other than just the question of assurance as you want to add into this
of which we are not discussing in this forum. The Spirits innitial work
on a heart can look the same in an unsaved and a saved person on the
outside. But there are some differences and they are telling. These
differences are vital in whether a person will persevere and have an
assurance of his salvation. It is in relation to the law. An unsaved has
a legal relationship to the law. The law is a school master to an
unbeliever. They measure there belief system by somekind of rule rather
than a relationship with a personal God. When they talk about God it is
as impersonal as it could be. So the Spirits work on an unbeliever is
that of using the law to show him that he is unable in himself to have
salvation. What happens is a person trys to obtain salvation in himself,
that is the natural result of the law being a hammer to destroy his
view of himself. Most people who go through this kind of paradigm
apostizise after awhile. They get dashed over the rock of offense, they
stumble over Christ.
|
| 8491
|
Forums / Main Forum / Falling Away
|
on: September 12, 2006, 10:10:11 PM
|
If they "fall away" they never possessed salvation in the first place.
Yep. Now, stop looking through the lens of theology. Forget for the moment about the mystery of regeneration, ordo saluti (ordos
salutis? ordo salutises?) and all that stuff. Just look at things as
they really are: People can and do believe for a while, show changed
behavior for a while, and then just fall away. Probably most of us have
known people like that. I have. So where is the assurance of
salvation? Whether you can lose it or whether you never really had it,
does it matter? Lost is lost. You can fret about it. You can try the 1 John tests. Do I really love the brethren? Do I really hate sin enough? You can try the Romans 8:16 test. Okay, does the Spirit testify with my spirit that I am a child of God? Is that really the Holy Spirit, or just me? Or the Matthew 7:21 test: Am I really doing the will of the Father? What is the will of the Father? You can drive yourself nuts. I just about did. Flush that stuff down the toilet. The character of God was revealed in Jesus Christ. Either trust Him to save you or don't trust Him. Period. A very practical answer.
When
you offer that kind of practical advice or try to act as if you are
simplifying a persons statis before God you are opening a very big can
of worms for yourself. First of all who can ever read another persons
heart. When you say that a person is saved on the inside because of some
kind of profession, or a change in life stile and you say that a person
is saved you are saying that a person has had a heart change. When you
are certian that a person had a heart change then you are certian that
you can read hearts. If you are certian that you can read hearts then
you can judge as good as God. I think thats were we need to leave the
judgement up to the scripture because a person could be strugging with a
sin, a very bad sin, and another person could be clean as the wind
driven snow, having all of the ts crossed and the i s dotted and yet
have a heart that is full of dead mens bones. It is very dangerous to
take part in reading hearts. If a person appostizises he is not beyond
grace. But what his condition is makes it impossible for him in himself
to turn and since he has rejected the Spirits work on his heart as an
unbeliever, but Gods grace can even reverse that or bring the person to
show by his repentance that he always had the grace, and for a period
was apostizing. We do not know even when someone apostizies what will
happen or what happens in his heart before he dies. God only knows. This
passage is not an absolute rule. You are saying the guy is saved and
loses his salvation. How do you know he was saved if you cant read his
heart?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No comments:
Post a Comment