7542	Forums / Main Forum / Which Jesus Do You Know?	on: April 21, 2007, 05:05:07 PM
Jesus is God, Trinity, one in essence three in persons. If you have seen Him you have seen the Father. And He is the image of God, the perfect visual image of God. The eternal Son, existing as the Son from all eternity humbled Himself and to on the form of a man, was begotten by the Holy Spirit, and was all God and all man. In the gospels His hypo static union was constantly working out in all of the gospel accounts. His being man did not mix with Him being God. He wept, got tired, He increased in knowledge , He was subjected to death. Yet He read minds, controlling the universe, He healed people, raised the dead, and gave up His life because death had no power over Him. In His death He was showing the Fathers love for sinners. At the cross is where we meet the collision of all truth and the earned rite of Christ to have all things placed under His feet. It is where love and hatred met, peace and anxiety, forgiveness and justice, grace and law. When we go to the cross, its transforming power meets our hatred and turns it into love, it remedies our sin for grace, but most of all we are transformed from a state of spiritual death to life. And in His life on earth earning through His active and passive obedience a perfect obedience to the Fathers will, and then dieing for His own, so that when He was raised to life having obtained eternal life, He ascended into heaven as our advocate and high priest. So that Christ no longer calls us servants but friends. He is like our older brother, because we are in His house and His family He is at our side as our advocate putting on our best face for us. He is there knowing the most intimate desires of our hearts and designing our lives so that we are seen as being strong even tho we are very weak. He is there knowing our thoughts before we think them so that we can understand who we are in Him, and He is given us such freedom through His Spirit that we no longer serve in the letter of the law but in the power of the Holy Spirit. We can now rejoice without ceasing, we can enjoy the peace and the love of the Trinity because of the Spirits revealing Christ love to us. Now we no longer serve as if mens eyes were apoun us but we serve a master who is always granting us His forgiveness, His protection from temptation, from the hands of the wicked, from the traps set by sinners, from our own pride. With His presence in our lives we now have a friend who knows just how to make us dependent when we stray, He knows just what kind of moment by moment heart surgery we need and He has perfect skill in discecting the scars we collect and makes them new flesh so that we can respond to the Spirits work in us. He is always present with us, and He is always going before us, He is awake when we sleep, He is speaking to us keeping us from going in the wrong direction. He is always giving us things even tho we do not deserve them, He is always available to talk to, even tho He is more familar with our sin than we are. He is always comforting us so that we do not get what we deserve. He is always giving us confidence even when we are over confident. He is everything we need to feel, do, and rest in this life. He makes His presence so strong that we are raised above the weight of this world so that we can live in the heavenly realms and we can have the confidence of a heavenly kind. He gives us strength when we are tired, He gives us rest when we are anxious, and really nothing that comes into our lives comes outside of His declaration. He does all these things so that He will get the glory and we will recieve the residuals. He even gives us everything that He owns.  7543  Forums / Theology Forum / The Whole Armour: William Gurnall on: April 21, 2007, 12:39:00 PM Quote Shalom, mbG! May I suggest a change in your wording that will solve problems in interpretation? Instead of saying the "perseverance of the saints," say the "perseverance on behalf of the saints!" It is not we who must persevere; it is God who perseveres on our behalf! While a true believer will choose to please God in every way he or she possibly can, that's NOT what keeps us! GOD HIMSELF keeps us! HE is the One who perseveres on our behalf! Reading what John Calvin wrote about this tenant, one may find that THIS was his message. That's why I believe in "eternal security"; it's not about us; it's all HIM! By the way, did you know there is a passage in the Tanakh (the OT) about the "whole armor of God?" There, Yesha`yahu adds to the breastplate of righteousness and the helmet of salvation the garments of vengeance and the cloche of zeal! But,...who's wearing them? Check it out for yourselves! Retrobyter I agree, I think in this day and age of activity and secularism we can come to the gospel in the same fashion. Just adding it to our other pragmatic schemes. There must be a fundamental change in the heart. It in some ways must be a revelation discovery. In this managed society it must appear to us as an out of place experience. Because the world system is pushing in on us at in such a strong fashion we are more susceptible to drawing wrong inferences to gospel single mindedness. It is nothing like working things out by secularist methods. Its not a systematized society of discouraging unsocial behaviors and encouraging group acceptance by human achievement of forgiveness in horizontal indulgences. (Or the ladder of a step mentality) ie walking the steps of pentance in pain therapy. No it is a spiritual transformation, with a focus on things unseen. It is what God reveals outside of man made structures of thinking. It transforms fundamental scientific thinking modes of discovery. It comes in a very negative paradigm of warning and of law preaching. It comes in a very revelation society of a heavenly mindset. Gods sovereign rule is more real than mans free choice or mans choosing to choose.Causal theology raises man above the mundane moral persuasion to contemplate on Gods revelation so that in that eternal contemplation we are able to view man as he really is, in his self righteousness being able to judge between the counterfeit and the real Spiritual awakening. It is in letting God be God that we find our passion and our need. In focusing on Gods bigness we feel rite, think rite, judge rite, and as individuals with different gifts , unless we are raised out of the earthly step mindset we will only be left with a definitive determinism with the philosophies of men weighting us down and causing us to feel enchained to our passions. Real desire transformation starts from causal theology. And once we focus on the cause then the effect will work out in a revelation way. Revealed truth makes reality and in that focus we find ourselves.  7544  Forums / Theology Forum / Belief/behavior on: April 21, 2007, 11:54:38 AM Quote Shalom again! Can you picture it? A UN meeting where nations from around the world have met to unseat the Global Emperor, Yeshua Ben-Elohim haMashiach v'haMelek Yisra'el? Suddenly, in the middle of the UN meeting, they hear laughter that seems to come from everywhere around them. Then, the voice articulates a challenge. "Yeah? Try it! I put Him there and I will keep Him there! ... You better be careful! You better learn your lesson! Support my Son or you might just tick Him off! You don't want to make Him mad! Happy are those who TRUST in Him!" THAT is what Psalm 2 is all about! Retrobyter If you are suggesting that Christ rule is physically revealed in the future  (thousand yrs)then we are left without an advocate or we are left with a theory of advocacy. Christ reign is in His causing all things to work. Christ is a personal advocate for all of His children. David was a warrior who banished all of his enemies from the kingdom. He united the kingdom of Isreal by His bravery in his constant devotion to his King. He was a man who thought Gods thoughts after Him. Because of the Trinity being one in essence , we have it worked out in the working out of all things for the glory of God. We can have complete victory in His design for our lives.In that relationship of the Father and the Son there is for us an advocacy. The nations worship idols who are lifeless. At the earliest stages of a wicked mans rational paradigm, the thoughts are only worthless. They begin to scheme against the King. Men are like snakes from birth. Because their thoughts are only evil continually they set up dead images to worship. Men actually worship things that cannot respond to them. They worship powerless images. Because the nations are bent on their images, they actively set out to plot against the righteous. They try to over throw the kingdom of God and His worshipers through their dead imaginations. But God will put them to fight. He will make them drink the cup of His furry for all eternity. We have the horns of Gods protection. Just like his church grabbed the horns of the altar so that God would surround them with His shield, so we can offer to Him ourselves as living sacrifices in prayer before Him pleading His promises. The horns are our petitions. They are in a single minded regenerated saint. Our single mindedness is shown by the kind of petitions we learn from His revelation to us. These petitions from His promises must be digested and mused over night and day. These meditations are Gods response to our needs. In His promises is complete responses to our every need. He is the King of every thing that is decreed for our lives , before the foundation of the world. His protection is in His law, and decrees , and in His promises. We look to Him for every thing. When we are unable to keep His law He has given us a remedy in His Son. We are never left without hope. Even when we feel as if our sin is too big for His Son, we have the horns of prayer that we can grab onto so that in grabbing those horns we are hoping in God.That musing creates in us deep desires for His glory to be manifested and it is that hoping against hope paradigm that gets the relief in the morning, or in the sign of His meeting our needs specifically to infuse our hope. In His communication to us through the petitioned willing grant to our wills we are then looking to Him to meet that need with a true communication in His answer in the morning.Once we eagerly wait for Him to answer we are learning to see Him in the morning of each day. We get a glimpse of total victory over our enemies by that morning by morning in that communication to us through the circumstances for our relief of these morning signs. When we grab the horns of prayer we experience a freedom of our Fathers care that surpasses all human ability. We can come as if we are rejected by everyone around us because comparing His care to human fathers it is our getting a snake in that human paradigm. We can come to Him as if our closest relation is an enemy. Because compared to them meeting our needs they are woefully lacking. We can come knowing that God will grant us victory over our chiefest enemies , knowing that His protection is pre ordained to destroy those who are working for our demise. In our horn of prayer we are grabbing onto the absolute truth in all our circumstances knowing that the remedy is for us, not because of what we do, but because of what we are in Him, helpless, needy and begging. He meets the needs of the unable. We can feel absolutely powerless in the horns of prayer, even sensing our demise, even feeling defenseless, being taken advantage of even tho the wicked are at some point just in their dealings with us, yet compared to Gods just requirements, utterly lacking in compassion. In that deli ma we have a Father that sees beyond the philanthropy of men to the evil intent to destroy the gospel and we have a just recompense in Him. We need not feel helpless in our irresponsibility in our helplessness because we can go as far as we can in being unable having that freedom in our Fathers care and know that His grace will win out over societies standards of the outward appearance justice. In the horns of prayer we can go before Him in complete freedom knowing that in His care we can fail completely in our trust of Him. Knowing that because He is holding onto us it is not our ability that will cause Him to smile at us, not our trusting that will cause Him to work on our behalf, not our feeling confident that will cause Him to act. But it is in our want, our need, our weakness that He will act. It is because we are the absolutely screwed up and inconsistent person that He delights to set as His prized possession. When we are sinning the worse His is most active in our lives. It is because of our need out of our feeling helpless that He acts helping us hope and hold onto those horns. Oh it is in His speaking to us through prayer in the most unusual paradigm that we are convinced that He is not like us. We are the most unusual people in this world. We are the most strange people. We trust in a God that others think are like them but will be surprised by our strangeness. We can think contrary to every one in the world and know that it is because we trust in the One who is not like anyone in the world , we can have confidence even when we feel like the hunchback man. Yes , the more we know God the more strange the world will be to us and the more of a stranger they will think we are. It is in His care that we will not succumb to the world system. We are the only ones in the universe when we feel the Fathers smile. It is a totally single minded regeneration. 7546  Forums / Theology Forum / Perseverence on: April 18, 2007, 11:12:32 PM People experience great pain in life. It can be a result of some horrific circumstances. And sometimes the pain is hidden inside a person so that they can keep it hidden and appear unburdened by it. The christian is always susceptible to the circumstances that keep them weak and needy. The reason is that we have all of these desires that are deep within our souls. And these desires are different some times from the experiences that we have with pain and sin. These are the desires that our Father has His eye on. It is only when we experience the pain that we become aware of just what kind of new life we possess by our going to our Father knowing that we are much weaker than what we desire life to be in a peaceful and happy state. When we are going through trials, we have a different view of our deepest desires. When the circumstances of life weigh us down, our longings for relief increase. And these longings are the experience we go through as sorrow and pain in God. When we get these longings for relief we are drawn to the only relief in Him as our object. In this experience we become more sanctified. The truth is we have sorrows and joys mixed together. But our pain increases the longings after God. When we learn to long for Him in our pain we begin to suffer the sufferings of Christ. We learn to be humble and merciful as our longings increase for relief. In this way God begins to form a hatred for sin and a very profound love for His ability to uphold us through the pain and sorrow. In experiencing pain we sometimes are mis represented by others. People look on the outward but God looks on the heart. We are not focusing on our outward behavior to get us through the pain, but we are going to God for relief even from being misrepresented. Our Father has designed it so that we are to worship Him alone, and not to draw people to ourselves through self righteousness. When we think highly of our selves and we are self sufficient our society of people are only there for the money and the good times, but God makes us needy so that we will not be tempted to trust in our own horses. It is because we are longing for relief that we are the choicest of His children that will be rewarded in heaven one day. In experiencing His eternal care for us , drawing out these longings we are more aware of our weakness and His strength so that we are growing to love heaven and to be with Him. When He becomes bigger than life, when His love in a deep painful way deepens our desires to know Him, then we will only want HIm more than any other things on this earth.  7561  Forums / Main Forum / Tired Verses on: April 16, 2007, 10:42:59 AM You cannot get tired of scripture. In our natural bent toward certain behaviors we usually lean toward one scripture over another. If the scriptures are the means for new life then to meditating on the scripture over and over again gets us to the effect in experiencing that new life. The scripture is alive, and unbroken. In our humanness we are in a battle in the use of scripture to discern error in the application of the scripture and in understanding the clear teaching of that scripture. The essence of the Trinity is in the God breathed revelation. In scripture we have that Trinitarian infusion of the Spirit awareness into our souls just like being baptized in the water. We are going under the water and being fully drenched with its elements. In the sensation of that experience we are under the control of that water. It is the same with being in a heavy rain. It is the water that is coming upon us and in being drenched by the water we are experiencing the full effects of the rain. The emanations of the fellowship between the Father and Son are taught to us by the Holy Spirit in the revelation of the scripture. The very nature of God and the Trinity are under-girded in the inspiration of the scripture so that we are being made new by exposing ourselves to that revelation. The experience of the Fathers love for the Son and its effects by the Spirit is what that effect does in us. The power is in the divine revelation. The word of God is that most powerful communicated emanation in its effects in the universe. It goes beyond any physical sensation, and is more powerful than any nuclear energy. Exposing oneself to the scripture brings about a direct effect on the soul and a direct effect in the circumstances that surround that soul. The revelation of God actually has the same effect and authority as the passing of time in our lives. Just like we have no control of time, even more powerful than its movement is the actual hand of God in His revelation. It alters a persons eternal perspective beyond time. 7567  Forums / Theology Forum / Perseverence on: April 10, 2007, 06:42:32 PM In perseverance we must believe that the promises of God as stated in the text go beyond our ability to reason in all situations. Once we begin to incorporate our reason what could happen in the future to us or by us we are going to apply our own logic to what is a predominately faith paradigm of growth. We must see that all of the situations that we are confronted with either bad or good are there in a general way as common to man, and in a more specific way intended to effect our thought process so that we will not be proud but we will learn how to think dependently. The first lesson in all trials is to curb our flattered carnality so that we are brought into a mindset of complete trust in someone and something outside of our own abilities. Flattery starts in our thinking of our own ability to achieve our goal. Self flattery is the opposite of self distrust. God designs trials so that we are brought to the end of ourselves so that we learn to distrust ourselves and men in general. God must be our all in all. For to Him, and through Him, and by Him are all things. He must be the only protection that surrounds us. His convincing us is to send enemies from within and without to test the shield of faith. It is flattery that these enemies use to cause us anxiety. Our future victories are only believed when we have a sense of God surrounding us in our present experience. We attempt to build a system of self righteousness when we turn to men in an attempt to mix our flattered views with another mans unmodified renewal. We must come to the place where we identify His voice by leaving us with no where else to turn but to Him. What works is in that supernatural personal experience of resting in Him. It is very seldom attained because men usually are not that desperate. We really really and i mean really are beggars. Dont let anyone flatter us.   7578  Forums / Main Forum / Conscience & Feelings Or The Word Of The Lord? on: April 09, 2007, 07:02:24 PM Quote I agree with what you are saying Peach and Tom, and the word of God does speak the truth of who we are and what we are required to do. After much meditation over the last 30 yrs , the word being alive introduces you to the Person who speaks that word. And His discription of who He is as the 2nd person of the Trinity is an image of the God head. So that the effect of meeting Him through His revelation to us is like looking into a glass dimly at Him. So that by His Spirit in our being introduced we are actually become more aquainted with that Person. Its like when we meet a stranger for the first time, and then we begin to spend time with them, so that we become aquaintences. And we begin to silently feel their insides as we go together in life. We know so much about them that we know how they are going to react to certian situations. Just like being married we know the weaknesses and strengths of our wives and we know their likes and dislikes. We know when they are struggling and when they are full of confidence. We know their fears, their most inner secrets, and we know what makes them tick. Well as we learn to talk to God , in a mature way, as His word teaches us we learn to acquaint ourselves with His disposition and those prayers that are pleasing to Him. Even tho we do not see Him we know Him as if we see Him. When we talk to Him in His will, He begins to meet with us. He begins to assure us through His revelation that He is a person who dwells in us and by His Spirit He is our constant companion. He becomes our most cherished friend. Thats what He calls us, and it is an inward call. So we know that when we talk to Him, we are going to sense absolute peace, because He comes as that image to us that we are familar with through His revelation. We know Him to be all that we need in this life. Its not like we are waiting to see Him, but we are able to see Him through the dark glass. It is enough for us to have a complete assurance when we recognize Him. There is a sense in which praying according to His will leads us to Him. And then the familar language of His Spirits pleas brings His personage to us in a very profound way. Its not like He is responding to our prayers but He is so profoundly above our finite experience that He breaks into our small views and experiences in this time continuim that when He personifies His personage to us we have impressions that are deep and aware , kinda like eternity breaking into the finite. As if we looked out of the corner of our eyes and caught a glimpse of Him at our side. And His speaking to us is usually reminding us that in these little things that are happening in our lives that He is directing them for our good. Its like when you feel as if your life is not what you invisioned and that reality held you captive, and then in that experience you were crying out to God, in that mornful state, and then He came in an answer to you and showed you through these little minute details that His hand was moving you in the path that He planned for you even tho it was a valley experience so that that little eternal moment broke into your soul with such force that it freed your mind to peace and trust in Him. There He was , speaking to you , standing there, reminding you of His faithfulness. Reply Quote Notify 7579  Forums / Main Forum / Conscience & Feelings Or The Word Of The Lord? on: April 09, 2007, 06:32:12 PM I agree with what you are saying Peach and Tom, and the word of God does speak the truth of who we are and what we are required to do. After much meditation over the last 30 yrs , the word being alive introduces you to the Person who speaks that word. And His discription of who He is as the 2nd person of the Trinity is an image of the God head. So that the effect of meeting Him through His revelation to us is like looking into a glass dimly at Him. So that by His Spirit in our being introduced we are actually become more aquainted with that Person. Its like when we meet a stranger for the first time, and then we begin to spend time with them, so that we become aquaintences. And we begin to silently feel their insides as we go together in life. We know so much about them that we know how they are going to react to certian situations. Just like being married we know the weaknesses and strengths of our wives and we know their likes and dislikes. We know when they are struggling and when they are full of confidence. We know their fears, their most inner secrets, and we know what makes them tick. Well as we learn to talk to God , in a mature way, as His word teaches us we learn to acquaint ourselves with His disposition and those prayers that are pleasing to Him. Even tho we do not see Him we know Him as if we see Him. When we talk to Him in His will, He begins to meet with us. He begins to assure us through His revelation that He is a person who dwells in us and by His Spirit He is our constant companion. He becomes our most cherished friend. Thats what He calls us, and it is an inward call. So we know that when we talk to Him, we are going to sense absolute peace, because He comes as that image to us that we are familar with through His revelation. We know Him to be all that we need in this life. Its not like we are waiting to see Him, but we are able to see Him through the dark glass. It is enough for us to have a complete assurance when we recognize Him.