I understand what you are saying. But from
personal experience i have not found this to meet the standards of
Christ in discipleship. After all Christ did not teach that balance
between mens responsibility and Gods sovereignty would lead to a trust
that was radical. This paradigm of balance can be mis applied to be a
paradoxical paradigm of autonomy and self effort. We really do
not understand the power of the struggle with the flesh. Jesus teaching
on this was radical. In other words what we are dealing with is making
the personality of the trust more important than the trust itself. Here
is what Jesus said was the problem. 16. \"But to what shall I
compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market
places, who call out to the other children, 17. and say, `We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.' 18. \"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, `He has a demon!' 19.
\"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, `Behold, a
gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'
Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.\" 20. Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. Its
not really the freedom to exercise the will, but its that we are
fighting against the tendencies to regard these neutral things by choice
as an excuse to disregard the importance of these times in our lives
that are ordered by God so that we treat them as common. ie worship,
selflessness, mortification, a serious disposition , having pleasure in
Christ alone. Its not necessarily sin that takes the place of these
times, but it is good things, and because of the flesh we are always
waring against wanting to do the opposite in what God has determined at
the time, or really not giving all of our strength to the means of
grace.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Orthodoxy - Chesterton
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on: June 20, 2007, 08:57:18 PM
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Thanks Bill, We are really people who are
unable to accomplish any good apart from the brightness of His glory
exposing us to His gracious deliverances. Our Father in heaven comes to
us shining forth as our protector in a spiritual display in all the pomp
and grandeur of a commander of millions and millions of chariots. Being
exposed to that brightness blinds us from our tenableness. Its as if we
were shaken out of our stupor by the beams of His pleasure and comfort
and we were so encouraged that it translated into an assurance that all
would be well when our trials had taken there course. Our spiritual
vision is given to us so that we can live in the light of this grace.
The stronger sight we have of His commanding in the sky the greater
assurance will transpire in our finite views. We can be utterly over
come by the brightness of His commanding glory.
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Forums / Theology Forum / The Ugliness Of Self- Righteousness
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on: June 19, 2007, 02:50:39 PM
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Self righteousness is the only problem with
man under sin. It is the natural state of man to try to do something to
please God in order to win favor with God. It is man trying to get favor
with God with some kind of outward performance so that everyone will
see and give assurance to men that they are worthy of salvation. Self
righteousness starts with an outward performance and never gets to the
inward problem of the heart. It is cleaning the outside of the cup while
the inside is full of dirt. Self righteous people think that
membership of a church or baptism, or consistent attendance at Christian
meetings give them an advantage in their sanctification. They love to
parade their position among men as the reason for their being acceptable
as Gods chosen. Their service to the church is measured by their
attendance to commit y meetings and the organization in the functioning
part of those comities. Self righteous people never consider the
weighter matters of the law, like mercy, compassion, love and
relationship. They are more interested in their goals being met.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Orthodoxy - Chesterton
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on: June 18, 2007, 09:42:37 PM
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|
What do those here think of the role of mystery in our Christian experience?
There
is much mystery in the spiritual sense. The mystery rises and falls in
that paradigm in the spiritual heat in an eternal sense. How can one
explain being carried away at the contemplation of Gods eternal
existence? If we could be able to translate what we desire into an
understandable concept, we would some how lose the reciprocated
experience of God reduplicating Himself to us in His truth by a
spiritual sense. That is our entire life experience is seeing in faith
or seeing things that are unseen. How can we describe the process of
communication to our minds of Gods promptings so that we receive a
satisfaction of the unseen in all of the color of that illuminated fact
to be able to see those things where eternity meets time?
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Forums / Theology Forum / Women In The Church
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on: June 17, 2007, 01:30:28 PM
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God
has not chosen to do anything where He has not blessed to accomplish
His purposes to bring Himself glory. It is God who raises one up and
brings another down, and there is only one purpose in His doing this, to
bring Himself glory. God gives to men positions of power in order to
discipline them. He makes men rich in order to accomplish the His moral
purposes through their pride. God will not be mocked.
When God disciplines through adding wealth or power He sends a wasting disease with that earthly happiness.
Is there a 'direct connect' some of us don't know about? Of course, \"to God be the glory\" but with stuff like this, no wonder timeout has a problem with our Father. So God takes us up and then brings us down... just for His enjoyment? Then why do we need faith? Come on! God saves us from ourselves and our own pride. He didn't create puppets. And if we're happy while we're on earth through Him,
I think we just might be reflecting Him. Did Neb give God the glory
prior to getting the rug yanked out from under him? Is man ever going to
take responsibility for their own sin... aka shortcomings? God doesn't
'cause' sin! If He does, we're ALL screwed.
What
is your monument? Is it buildings with you name attached at the bottom?
Is it you name on the pew? Is it your world view where play and work
are one and the same importance based upon the numbers? Is it your radio
programs, your books with your names?
How about... God (not
church... BIG difference), family, work, play... in that order... for
'monuments'? Who gives a flip about anything else during a 'vapor of a
life' on earth? Have a 'play-full' weekend! earnestt
earnest,
Thanks for the directness. If there was one thing you could do to make
the salvation process acceptable to God then salvation would be a heavy
weight around your neck. There are only three states of being in life.
The fallen state, the regenerated state, and the heavenly state. When we
are born we are born in sin. That means we can do nothing to please
God. We only sin continually. Our mouths are a seplacre, that is there
is no life on our lips because what comes out of the darkness of the
heart is the evidence that the heart is dead spiritually. Its not what
goes into the mouth that defiles a man , but what comes out of that man.
In other words man cannot glorify God because man in his natural state
does not want to give all the glory to God in praise and adoration. Man
does not really believe there is a God. They say in every action that
there is no God. They are foolish in their thinking. God deserves all of
the praise of everything that exist, or is in the process of changing,
or is under dark circumstances. By the word of God do the heavens exist,
He melts the snow on the mountains by His word. So that even the
natural process of existence is brought about by the decrees of God from
eternity. Mans heart is restless until he finds his rest in God. And
the only thing that can change mens hearts is Gods gracious decree of
salvation. God saves because He deserves praise for all of His
works. Gods work of salvation is His display of love , faithfulness,
long suffering, and free grace. When God saves a man , He does it
strictly by His work and His power. If God can create the universe by
the word of His mouth, then He shows forth His work for His glory by the
word of His mouth, so that every man may conclude that all men are
under the wrath of God and cannot do one work to reverse the decree of
God against sin. If man cannot effect the change then God must receive
the glory of His decree in His willing according to His design before
the creation of the world. God is not only glorified in His working in
creation and in the salvation of men, but God is glorified in His wrath
being poured out on man because of sin. God is angry at sinners every
day. Because sinners have no power to change they are always working
against God, against His unfailing love, against His goodness, against
His patience, against His faithfulness. God always uses mens rebellion
against themselves by giving them their hearts desire. The truth is that
mens rebellion does not change the plan of God one bit. When men rebel,
they just make their own lives more miserable. They dig their own hole.
They never make it difficult for God to protect the righteous. They
work in behalf of Gods glory to prove that God is just and rite in His
word. The righteous are encouraged by Gods word of faithfulness, His
work of unfailing love and His rescuing them from the evil of the wicked
designs. The wicked continue to dig their own hole, and telling
themselves that God does not care to see. But God is working to break
their bands and render them powerless. God will avenge the righteous. One
thing that i must say is that the righteous are not inbroiled in this
war on their own. Because Gods unfailing love, faithfulness, patience
and goodness are bigger than their failures. So that the righteous are
shielded not by their own goodness, but by Gods love that reaches
farther and wider than they could ever comprehend. We don t create our
own safety, but we have a refuge that is outside of our abilities, so
that when we take refuge in God we experience His greatness, His eternal
attributes, His command to save. We live in another s victory over the
enemies. This is why salvation is of God.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Women In The Church
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on: June 17, 2007, 01:30:28 PM
|
God
has not chosen to do anything where He has not blessed to accomplish
His purposes to bring Himself glory. It is God who raises one up and
brings another down, and there is only one purpose in His doing this, to
bring Himself glory. God gives to men positions of power in order to
discipline them. He makes men rich in order to accomplish the His moral
purposes through their pride. God will not be mocked.
When God disciplines through adding wealth or power He sends a wasting disease with that earthly happiness.
Is there a 'direct connect' some of us don't know about? Of course, \"to God be the glory\" but with stuff like this, no wonder timeout has a problem with our Father. So God takes us up and then brings us down... just for His enjoyment? Then why do we need faith? Come on! God saves us from ourselves and our own pride. He didn't create puppets. And if we're happy while we're on earth through Him,
I think we just might be reflecting Him. Did Neb give God the glory
prior to getting the rug yanked out from under him? Is man ever going to
take responsibility for their own sin... aka shortcomings? God doesn't
'cause' sin! If He does, we're ALL screwed.
What
is your monument? Is it buildings with you name attached at the bottom?
Is it you name on the pew? Is it your world view where play and work
are one and the same importance based upon the numbers? Is it your radio
programs, your books with your names?
How about... God (not
church... BIG difference), family, work, play... in that order... for
'monuments'? Who gives a flip about anything else during a 'vapor of a
life' on earth? Have a 'play-full' weekend! earnestt
earnest,
Thanks for the directness. If there was one thing you could do to make
the salvation process acceptable to God then salvation would be a heavy
weight around your neck. There are only three states of being in life.
The fallen state, the regenerated state, and the heavenly state. When we
are born we are born in sin. That means we can do nothing to please
God. We only sin continually. Our mouths are a seplacre, that is there
is no life on our lips because what comes out of the darkness of the
heart is the evidence that the heart is dead spiritually. Its not what
goes into the mouth that defiles a man , but what comes out of that man.
In other words man cannot glorify God because man in his natural state
does not want to give all the glory to God in praise and adoration. Man
does not really believe there is a God. They say in every action that
there is no God. They are foolish in their thinking. God deserves all of
the praise of everything that exist, or is in the process of changing,
or is under dark circumstances. By the word of God do the heavens exist,
He melts the snow on the mountains by His word. So that even the
natural process of existence is brought about by the decrees of God from
eternity. Mans heart is restless until he finds his rest in God. And
the only thing that can change mens hearts is Gods gracious decree of
salvation. God saves because He deserves praise for all of His
works. Gods work of salvation is His display of love , faithfulness,
long suffering, and free grace. When God saves a man , He does it
strictly by His work and His power. If God can create the universe by
the word of His mouth, then He shows forth His work for His glory by the
word of His mouth, so that every man may conclude that all men are
under the wrath of God and cannot do one work to reverse the decree of
God against sin. If man cannot effect the change then God must receive
the glory of His decree in His willing according to His design before
the creation of the world. God is not only glorified in His working in
creation and in the salvation of men, but God is glorified in His wrath
being poured out on man because of sin. God is angry at sinners every
day. Because sinners have no power to change they are always working
against God, against His unfailing love, against His goodness, against
His patience, against His faithfulness. God always uses mens rebellion
against themselves by giving them their hearts desire. The truth is that
mens rebellion does not change the plan of God one bit. When men rebel,
they just make their own lives more miserable. They dig their own hole.
They never make it difficult for God to protect the righteous. They
work in behalf of Gods glory to prove that God is just and rite in His
word. The righteous are encouraged by Gods word of faithfulness, His
work of unfailing love and His rescuing them from the evil of the wicked
designs. The wicked continue to dig their own hole, and telling
themselves that God does not care to see. But God is working to break
their bands and render them powerless. God will avenge the righteous. One
thing that i must say is that the righteous are not inbroiled in this
war on their own. Because Gods unfailing love, faithfulness, patience
and goodness are bigger than their failures. So that the righteous are
shielded not by their own goodness, but by Gods love that reaches
farther and wider than they could ever comprehend. We don t create our
own safety, but we have a refuge that is outside of our abilities, so
that when we take refuge in God we experience His greatness, His eternal
attributes, His command to save. We live in another s victory over the
enemies. This is why salvation is of God.
|
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Forums / Main Forum / This May Interest You
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on: June 17, 2007, 08:28:12 AM
|
Tom,
I just see you being free in my heart so clearly, and I want to make it
happen today. I'm not saying you're evil, but I truly believe that
theology has you around the neck. But I think in some way it's a comfort
becasue it's just so predictable. I want you to be at peace. I want the
others who read here to witness it. But I cannot make it happen
yesterday. I don't believe for one second that your heart is insincere,
or that you don't love truth. As for your heart, I believe it is beyond
reproach. But you have Him in there somewhere, and maybe some of this
was supposed to sink in, but I hate that you may believe that I just
simply meant to cut at your feelings. I swear I didn't do that on
purpose, sir. It's not your feelings that I was after, but what I
perceive as a prison, and truly the antichrist that has misrepresented
Jesus to the world, making a freshly made marriage bed for Islam to
fill. But nothing that I have said was to hurt you personally. I wanted
nothing but to make you see, and to tell you the truth in a way that few
can, or will. BUT, it was never just to hurt you for the sake of
hurting you. I want to be clear on that. I do not believe that your
intentions are evil. I want to be clear on that. I'm sorry if I led you
to believe otherwise.
Thanks for being honest Patrick. When one
is giving practical advice over the internet i always consider that to
be less important than theology. I don t even like to here the practical
stuff over the radio , (that is counselors giving advice.) Being
practical is easy. You get an instant answer, you get a friend you can
confide in, and you can focus on the process of living rather than the
theory or the reasons. Most people who give practical advice are
arminian in their theology. Or they are pagan. My thinking on strictly
the paradigm of practical advice is that every time you tell someone to
do something and they do it you create another problem that may be
hidden or that may come up long after the situation has taken its
course. Because we are not in a battle to overcome problems, but we are
in a battle between those forces that cannot be seen, those forces that
are way beyond our ability to overcome, those forces that are attacking
Christ, and we are placed in the middle of the battle not to fight in
our own power, but to use spiritual weapons to master along with just
standing there and watching or resting in Christ. We are pragmatic with
practical advice , and dogmatic with Christ word. God has the
ultimate view of our lives. He can see the past better than we can and
he can see the future better than we can. It is not necessarily the view
we have about our past or our future that makes our choices morally
wise. It is the view we have of the one who knows intimately what will
transpire in the future, or why we have gone through what we have gone
through in the past. Our view of God is His revelation to us through the
propositions of scripture. Gods revelation to us is His communication
to us of the work He is doing in us by our choices, so that nothing that
we have chosen has not been determined by God to form our view of
ourselves for His working in us in the future. The short sightedness of
earthly counsel is that we cannot see the future circumstances that may
change our choices for the good even tho we are in a pickle in the
present. God does things that are not understandable in the past and
present so that in the future He might show that it was Him alone that
delivered us. It is cheifly His glory that makes us dogmatic about the
purpose of His name being glorified in our sin and trials. Jesus
is not just practical. Jesus does not come with the ten steps of
righteousness. Jesus is not focused on mans ability to achieve through
process. The doctrine of Jesus is not positive thinking. Lord did not we
prophecy in your name? did not we cast out devils in your name? Did not
we do all of these things for you? Depart from me i never knew you.
Positive thinkers end up in hell. I am not directing this toward you
Patrick. Doctrine and practice are inseparable. If you don t know
the doctrine then you cant possibly do anything according to the truth.
Sanctify them by Thy truth , Thy word is truth. If a person says that
doctrine is not important or that it is not the sola of the way a person
conducts himself then they are not being truthful about Christ. I
live in the negative. Being a sinner is no fun. Facing the fact that i
am wasting away and under the domination of sorrow at times is not what i
consider a happy way to live. But it is real. Its because we are in
adam that we are receiving the punishment for sin, death. And thats not
just spiritual death, but physical. The physical part is real. The
problems are not small. The sorrow is not weak or can be weakened. Its
more of a rising and a falling feeling. If we come to Jesus we must face
our sorrow because we face our sin. Every time we come to Jesus we come
with nothing and we leave with everything. But we go through the sorrow
of our sin. Jesus equals sorrow. When we try to mortify our sin
in the biblical way,in the process we really are faced with a stronger
desire to sin rather than a weaker desire. Sinning is a spiritual deli
ma of Satan s power being worked out by our deed and doing the rite
thing is by grace, Christ imputed righteousness. So that everything we
do is done in faith in the realm of all those things that are too strong
for our willing strength. We cannot will enough to overcome anything.
This is Christ view of us. He knows our hearts, or He is fully aware of
our weak wills. We will never not sin, or we will never not be
sorrowful, or we will never choose good enough to be able to stand in
our own ability. My problem I am having with you is that i defend
myself with doctrine, and then you tell me that i am wrong. I am not
doing this to make you mad. This is my way of being obedient to Christ. I
do not trust myself for one moment to trust in practical advice. I am not trying to be braggadocios but most everything i have written here is direct propositions from scripture.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Women In The Church
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on: June 16, 2007, 08:58:50 AM
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Galatians 5:6 \"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor
uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith
expressing itself through love.\"
I did not say that it was
necessary to be circumcised. I said that it was necessary to be a male
in order to be circumcised. This verse is not applicable.
Gods
discipline is not always in lacking of someone or something. Riches or
authoritative positions are not always the gauge on measuring Gods
attitude toward us. We naturally think that being comfortable with
goods and power in this world equals a positive attitude and a happy
life. If we lack in something in ourselves, in our position in life, in
our wealth that the cause of this is God disciplining us to make us
unhappy and unhealthy. But God who is sovereign over all things gives to
each man according to his just deserts. God has not chosen to
do anything where He has not blessed to accomplish His purposes to bring
Himself glory. It is God who raises one up and brings another down, and
there is only one purpose in His doing this, to bring Himself glory.
God gives to men positions of power in order to discipline them. He
makes men rich in order to accomplish the His moral purposes through
their pride. God will not be mocked. When God disciplines through
adding wealth or power He sends a wasting disease with that earthly
happiness. Men deserve death because of being born in sin. Men are
always going to measure their value by earthly measurements ie position
and power. He does this so that men will repent of their lust and
coveting and acknowledge that God alone deserves the glory. Men will
make a moral argument about why they deserve the position and the
wealth. They say look how hard i have worked for my position and power.
Yet that has led them into trusting themselves and glorying in their own
ability so that they are unhappy and short sighted. Instead of
rejoicing in God as the giver, they naturally think that they have
earned what they deserve. Sometimes getting the good things that
we deserve is not such a good thing. Within each heart is a propensity
to exaggerate toward sin. Not only do men fall into sin, but the most
secret sin of pride looks moral and makes men exaggerate their behavior,
their view of themselves, and their wanting of fame in the eyes of
others. God makes men proud in order to bring them to see themselves as
they really are. Did you know that pride can lead a man to mental
illness? Look at Nebacnezer. God gave him all that his heart wanted,
then brought him down with one word. Why ? Because God got the glory in
the end for the good things that every one saw about him. He was an
example of why it is so dangerous to have wealth and position. Could
you imagine the practical advice Neb. was giving on success to the
people as he stood in front of his statue. Who got the glory in the end? What
is your monument? Is it buildings with you name attached at the bottom?
Is it you name on the pew? Is it your world view where play and work
are one and the same importance based upon the numbers? Is it your radio
programs, your books with your names?
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Forums / Main Forum / You Talk To Yourself. And It Directs Every Step.
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on: June 12, 2007, 04:17:57 PM
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MBG...
I
am just curious, do you believe that any of the men who penned the
theologies that you are so fond of have or had any more access to God
than you do?
The problem I have with theologies in general is
that they are typically very narrow. Taking one passage of scripture and
expounding and expounding upon it. You know who else did this? The
"scribes" (Lawyers of God's law), who were rebuked by Christ at every
turn. Every one of them claims that their theology is "The" correct
theology. That being the case, how does one choose?
My own
thoughts are throw them all out the window and seek a personal,
palatable, real relationship with the creator God. When Suzy Super
Christian (thats a Joyce Meyerism that I find funny) says to Nancy New
Christian that you must doX, Y, and Z Based on the writings of pastor
Neville knowledgebase to gain acceptance from God, where does Nancy end
up? Most likely back in the street worse off than when she started.
Jesus
busted the paradigm to pieces when he said:" Believe me, woman, a time
is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor
in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship
what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is
coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father
in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father
seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in
truth."
Yet we run back to the pile of shards trying to
reassemble the paradigm. "Which paradigm?" The one that states that
anyone has any greater influence or understanding of God based on this
set of parameters of holiness, dedication, sacrifice, schooling,
upbringing, whatever. The pharisees, continual butts of Jesus Religious
innuendo, were famous for this. They knew it, they had it goin on, they
were right, and the lowly, ungodly, unclean pleebs of the world had to
bow before their vast understanding of God. Yeah, right.
It
infuriates me sometimes to listen to some of the "Theological Thinkers."
One example, John Mcarthur. He knows the word backward and forward, but
he is almost arrogant in his proclamations sometimes. Especially in
things relating to the action of God's spirit. Mcarthur is dead set
against ANYTHING that runs outside the mainstream, and says people who
claim to speak in tongues are basically under the influence of the
devil. Rubbish! He boxes God into a manageable, understandable,
predictable set of parameters, and refuse to consider anything outside
of what he believes because he is, after all, a "great theological
thinker." I think in the minds of many the theology is worshipped over
the God on which it is based.
Eric
Hey man, if you have
read my post, you know that i believe in experience's in the paradigm of
trust. I believe everyone is a product of his religious upbringing and
experience. A man learns to experience these things by how he has
worshiped in community and it is very hard to think outside the box for
any one. There are really two extremes i try to avoid. The hot and cold
analogy is really a good one. Since i have been dealing with the heat
as of late. I know that the teaching is that lukewarmness is really a
sign of a person not being in the faith because there really is no
desire on the one hand or struggle on the other. But there is another
angle to this deli ma. It seems that when a person is just going through
the motions that they are under the dominance of the cold or the hot.
If a person has no reasons for his belief, has no propositions to
describe how God has revealed Himself then he is going to be dominated
by his surroundings. If they are cold, then he will not be
rejoicing in Christ or having much communication in His spiritual life.
He will be dominated by the secularism of America. He will practice this
paradigm in private. And if he is hot then the surroundings will be
oppressive to him. He will always be under the oppressiveness of the
warmness and will never fully engage his mind to a spiritual task. Thats
why we need a balance in these things as well as a logical definition
of who God is and who we are. If we do not know God as exalted then we
will be guilty of lowering Him to be like us. And if we do not know
ourselves in the light of Gods knowledge then we will naturally create a
god on our level that we can control. This thinking is what naturally
comes out of our own minds and is the reason why we are always tossed to
and fro. When we understand who God is then we will be able to
understand the difference between the mystical aspects of faith as
apposed to the paradigm of mysticism. There must be experience or you
will die of coldness, and there must be doctrine or you will be
susceptible to any teaching out there.
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Forums / Main Forum / You Talk To Yourself. And It Directs Every Step.
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on: June 12, 2007, 03:56:20 PM
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The only thing you have told me is that freedom involves positive
thinking and that theology makes a person unstable and irrational to
pain.
.........But its funny how those who reject the visible
church and theology are reduced to proving that the function of the
mind is just focusing on positivism.
You are a liar. You may quote me on that when you or whomever calls or emails Erik. steve@keylife.orgYou
know well and good that that is not the totality of the message that I
have told people for years in here. You know that I have debated people
who claim that relativism is valid, which it is not. Jesus is the Way,
the Only Way, to the Father, and you KNOW I profess that. You also know
many other things that I constantly talk about in here and for some
reason have decided to create the falshood that I only profess that one
needs to be a positive thinker. Your virtual immediate resorting
to lying illustrates that theology, your only support, is not up to the
task of giving you what you need to refuite what I have said. I have news. Lying ain't gonna do it for you either.
irrational to pain.
And I never said that. I don't even know what it means. In fact, I don't think it means anything. I
am the visible church, Bob! And ANY believer is a member of the Body
of Christ. WE'RE ALL VISIBLE!!! We meet with each other, we rely upon
each other, we love each other and sometimes we hold one another
accountable. Often. And we all have our places; paators, teachers, etc,
etc, etc. Theological bents and doctrinally proprietatry
institutions aren't the visible chirch. They are a very sophisticated
pop-up ad, screen sucking people who came online to find Jesus Christ,
and ultimately, His Father. His Father, whose Spirit enters us,
makes us desire wholesomeness, truness, health, vitality, adequate
wealth (the bible's term, not mine) to feed the poor and the hungry, and
so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. Theology is often what people
revert to when they have not seen this type of fruit, evidence of God's
involvment in their life, in the same way that many ancient peoples
invented mythological gods to explain thunder, or why the crops failed. He loves you, whover reads this, and today, He sent me here to tell you this.
Patrick, i never said that you were strictly in the positive thinking
group. You take a little from here and there. You are a better explainer
of freedom than i am and you have dealt with more of the original
thinking process than i have had to deal with. I respect your untiring
and constant truthfulness on this forum. But we all have kinks in our
armor. If someone tells me absolutely that they are the truth and that
they cannot be challenged when they are trying to get someone to change,
then my ears go up. I am confused. I say that theology is blue.
Then you say that theology is red. Then i say no that theology is blue
and you come back and say that you never said theology wasnt blue. Or
maybe i have missed something. But i think the doctrine of the church
goes much farther than the universal part. If a guys got ceribal
palsy there is no amount of positive thinking that is going to cure that
condition. Nor will he change in the way he looks towards others. Its
the same with people who struggle with depression or some other
physiological deli ma. Accepting that goes a long way toward what kind
of people a person should be in relation to and what kind of precautions
should be there for that person. Sometimes we need to accept each other
as broken and not try to change what is a physical condition. Even meds
have side effects.
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7343
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Forums / Main Forum / You Talk To Yourself. And It Directs Every Step.
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on: June 12, 2007, 11:49:20 AM
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Patrick I respect your freedom and your view
of freedom. But the only thing you have told me is that freedom involves
positive thinking and that theology makes a person unstable and
irrational to pain. A lot of what goes out is very narrow and
simplistic. And i am not talking just about you or all of what you rite.
But its funny how those who reject the visible church and theology are
reduced to proving that the function of the mind is just focusing on
positivism. I believe that a vacuum of knowledge of theology, either by
rejecting it or by not knowing it and expressing it in its historical
terms is a form of idol worship. Where does your thinking lead
you? Do you end up spending more time in the word than you did before
you were healed? Do we want to know God by His propositions of Himself
in the word, according to these these doctrines or do we end up with
just one more moral principle to add onto our schedule with a feeling of
health and good feelings about being in community. Do we actually spend
more time seeking for truth which pays little and is worth little in
this world so that we know Him better and are better able to express
those biblical doctrines, or do we keep all of our former enjoyments and
just add integrated personalities to our healthy view of life? Do we
love our being more moral, or our being more in love with Christ? What
is the final disposition we have after all of the counseling and all of
the group therapy. Where are all the deep theology thinkers ?
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Forums / Main Forum / Souls In The Hands Of Angry God
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on: June 12, 2007, 11:04:34 AM
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Gods attributes are all holy attributes. His
love is a holy love, faithfulness is holy etc. Christ has fulfilled that
standard of meeting all of the requirements for us being able to access
all of His promises. The fear is not based upon a mis understanding of
His attributes. When we come before a holy God we come before a most
high judge. When we are regenerated we are adopted into His family. That
adoption is by faith alone and is just as important as our
justification, from His legal declaration that we are accepted not by
our own righteousness , but by Christ righteousness. We are declared
innocent in the court of heaven.
When we are adopted into the
family of God we take on His name. Because our adoption is by His
sovereign will from before the creation of the world salvation is Gods
mainly. Having His name means that we are being represented by Christ in
as our advocate. He not only defends, but He defends us because of His
name. The respect we get from being in Christ is for His glory alone. He
not only represents us by our obedience, but He speaks on our behalf
when we fail. He upholds us when we struggle, He makes us happy in His
presence, and He forgives us freely.
Our respect for Him comes
from His absolute ability to set all things rite in our lives. He is
able at any time to interrupt by His power and will the normal means of
us knowing Him and set things rite in a blink of an eye. True change is
brought about by Him acting , forgiving, loving, being faithful,
commanding, receiving the glory due His name, and working all things in
our lives for the good. We live in His love knowing that if He were to
reject us by our willful disobedience that we would suffer in this life
and in eternity. So that we are always drawn to Him by knowing the worth
of His loving us in experiencing His loving discipline, knowing that He
will continue to sanctify us. He draws us to Himself by granting us
grace to desire Him and by keeping us from falling so that we know in an
assured way that His obedient life and death and resurrection are of
more value than to us than any thing in this life. We have a healthy
respect.
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