God is not universal in His special love. God
has a disposition of love but God does not love all men the same. God
only loves the object of His choice... in an individual sense. Gods love
is particular. God only loves by His relation to His people. What is
possible is made possible by God... what is impossible is determined by
Gods relation to men. God only makes things possible by His relation to
men. His love determines what that relationship is and what is possible
for men. It is impossible outside the love of God for men to do good, be
accepted.. be loved unconditionally.. and to experience love as it is
defined in God being love. God only loves His own eternally.
Ok...
i am going to come in here cause my gentile brother (and if you are
jewish i apologize)who is one of my fellow dogs has my support.  First
Repentance is a means of grace. Its not a way to obtain grace... its a
grace that is given to be able to repent. Repentance is a saving work of
God in which He kills the old will and puts a new will in the heart.
Its Gods will.... I know ... you dont get any credit... sorry ... just
telling you what grace should look like. God is faithful... long
suffering... full of love... unfailing in His love... and He gives
irresistible grace. He doesnt need the sorrowful feelings of men in
order to get someone to repent. When God works repentance its always
done in the midst of ... there is no one who does good ... no not one.
Because man wants to present his particular group of people as more able
to receive sinless confession in order to boast of old coventant
repentance.But the truth is that men are like the apostle paul who
said... i do not do what i want to do. So Thor... can you tell me in
your own theological system that Paul wasnt a believer and please sign
it with your life...not even John Wesley was willing to do that. if you
really believe in repentance the way you present it. "If i forget you
oh Jerusalem ... may my right hand forget its skill... may my toung
cling to the roof of my mouth if i do not remember you." So this defines
your ability? |
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5143
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Members Only / Purgatory / Re: Church or not the Church..debate # ?
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on: April 22, 2009, 10:42:19 AM
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Were it otherwise, were foreseen works the
ground of election, there would be no suitableness nor congruity in such
terms as foreknowledge and election on the subject. It would have been
much more appropriate in this case for the Apostle to say, “God will
receive every Jew who will render himself worthy by his works.” On this
supposition there was no necessity for him to go back to election to
remove the objection which he had stated; he had only to refer to the
terms of the gospel, which regard Jews and Gentiles without any
difference. But instead of doing this, which seems adequate to the
purpose, he gives an answer by referring to the foreknowledge and free
election of God. There is no way to account for this, except by
admitting, that election is an efficacious purpose which secures the
salvation of those who are its objects, who have been chosen in Christ
before the foundation of the world. — Ed. So he says to the Galatians,
that they had been known by God, (Galatians 4:9); for he had anticipated
them with his favor, so as to call them to the knowledge of Christ. We
now perceive, that though universal calling may not bring forth fruit,
yet the faithfulness of God does not fail, inasmuch as he always
preserves a Church,... Calvin Ok... heres the issue... there is a
remnant... in special circumstances there are times when there are many
worshipers who are outside the local assembly. But the normal way in
which God works is through the churchs of Rome... of Galatia...of
Corinth etc. This epistle written by the Apostle was penned for the
local assembly with real elders... etc. The question is At what point do
we depart from the organized denominations when they embrace
universalism. The point is that it does not depend upon our perseverance
of whether we can hold this organized church together.It was that God
does not fail in His doing the necessary perseverance in His remnant no
matter how low the organized church goes. To say that the organized
church is evil as a blanket statement is to do as Paul did... and in the
end it is kicking against the goads. God never fails in bringing His
remnant through each time.. whether in the OT or the Nt church.. any
other focus is defining grace downward.
| 5145
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Catholic Question about John 6
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on: April 22, 2009, 08:29:29 AM
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Your alter ego?
Please answer me first, and then i'll explain. Do you think it was wrong for me to let you believe Michael was a real person? Don't
worry about offending me, for i'm not easily offended. I'm thick
skinned. I can take it; only tell it to me straight. As Paul said,
speak the truth in love.
Soc
.... i kinda figured it out on the second page of this thread. I think i
used Micheal in a sarcastic way in one of my post. I really did not
know if you were presenting him as a real person. I know at first you
told us he was real... but it wasnt important to me whether he was real
or not... i mean if he was real then Micheal can speak for himself. Its
not a problem... i mean i would have used Micheal as a part of trying to
convince you.
| 5167
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Catholic Question about John 6
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on: April 19, 2009, 09:14:34 PM
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..This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."...
52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
57 b Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."
How would you take with these verses as Jesus analogy?
I
think He is talking about dieing here... and being willing to die too.
Not only in identity but physical death... look at the reaction of the
crowds...60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard
teaching. Who can accept it?"
What would be a hard teaching? In scripture it is Perdition.
Perhaps.
That remains for us to discover. It seems to me that if He was talking
about His real body and blood, saying they must eat them, well, THAT
would be just as hard a teaching to swallow! And Jesus is
comparing the Bread of Life to the manna, saying one is not like the
other. So, that's why i asked, and why i'm asking again: Was the
physical manna spiritual food? What do you think?
48 I
am the bread of life. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven.
Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will
live forever. Here the bread is Jesus.... not in the sense of
fulfilling physical hunger .. but being in Him 57Just as the living
Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on
me will live because of me. This is not talking about living
physically...its talking about the relationship of Christ with the
Father. Later Jesus says I am in the Father and the Father is in me...
and then He talks about us being in Him so that we are in the Father by
being in Him. Just like the bread sustained physical life... Jesus is
the new covenant manna... We are connected to Him... we can do nothing
without Him. His purpose for coming to the earth was not to give His
body as a remembrance. It was for the glory of the Father. The purpose
was so that Christ might be glorified... by being a perfect sacrifice.
His body was broken but it was not the reason that we have eternal life.
He had to die... not just suffer... He came to die not to suffer
physically.... sin demands death. It was because He died the flesh and
blood being an analogy of His death...that we can now be united to Him
in His life.... Never think that the physical part of the suffering was
the purpose for His coming. This is why this whole analogy is just
speaking of death. If at some point leading up to His death these other
analogies were meant... then the lesser would be more important than the
greater.
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5172
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: The Spirit of Revival
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on: April 19, 2009, 03:16:59 PM
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May
we be filled with all the power of His resurrection so that we might
know the depth, and height and length of the love of God... so that we
might find our lives to be all of Him... all of His speaking ... all of
His moving... and all of our minds so enthralled with that beauty that
we could only think a small part on the parts of our days. God has
changed my worship. Now i am hearing the doctrines of Grace. Wow....
this is amazing. I have a very deep reservoir of revived listening that
is going to draw me to revival.
As
blissful as it sounds, may we actually MOVE in all that "power" beyond
just the 'know'-ing and re-newing of our minds and actually WALK in
revival. That's when people take notice of Christ within. Jesus usually
WALKed, then TALKed; "show and tell" per se. His ministry was in the
'signs and wonders' aka healing. WALKing/DOing/LOVEing in His Power
destroys debate. TALK is cheap.
Mattew 9:8
Now when the multitudes saw, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such POWER to men.
John 14:12
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also, and greater than these he will do
(!), because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I
will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask
anything in My name, I will do.
1 Corinthians 2:4-5
And my speech and my preaching, not with persuasive words of wisdom, but in DEMONSTRATION of the Spirit and of POWER that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the POWER of God.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of POWER, and of love, and of a sound mind.
His power has been given to us through faith and 'Faith without works is dead'. Do we have the guts to follow Him?
John 21:19b
...And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow me."
Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
1 John 2:6
He who says He abides in Him ought himself also to WALK just as He walked.
I
want nothing but to learn to continuously DEMONSTRATE His power through
His love and His Spirit. And oh my !!! how He loved. I guess that's why
they call it 'discipleship'... because it takes a tad bit of
'discipline' and practice and death to self to be resurrected and...
truly "Follow Me". Heal my unbelief!!
In Christ,
earnestt
erny
... reformation and revival are closely related. Revival and renewal
are also in the same spiritual condition in awakening. Its awakening
from a slumber. The unregenerate are fully asleep... they are like dead
men... but believers experience a level of the flesh that is natural in
the ongoing battle with this devilish disposition. Christians experience
a lethargic condition of being dumb ed down in spiritual exercises and
finding relief in things unseen... not being in tune with the spirit of
the matter at hand. And i dont think the general attitude is toward
being used as an instrument in an evangelistic sense. Because God is
bigger than just saving men to change a town or society by the method of
sanctification. But God can renew a whole society in one night. We are
talking about reformation... revive us so that we will call on
You...having understood that a beautific vision of Jesus defines the
cause of revival. Now this is generated by prayer... it is the
understanding that we are in a desperate position and in need of
something that would be humanly impossible to reform with just words and
reforming of character. Here we are dealing with the vision of faith...
that sense of being drawn out in His word to us... and then finding in
that muse a sense of His powerful moving in this direction that we are
drawn out in a dis positional sense. For the spirit of a matter in
promise is the nature of the experience.In His light we see light. Or in
His call we experience His Spirit of. I mean the Spirit has a
character... the seven spirits before the throne of God is the Spirit.
Now then there are different manifestations of the Spirits presence in
revival. Not all the same... and sometimes unrevealed but there is a
freedom that results from being under the effects of the Spirits
control. Revival could be experienced like the rivers around the
throne being poured out upon the earth. These rivers are smooth as
glass.. reflecting the glory of God.. the sparkle of the beauty of God.
What would cause a man to be struck without hearing a word? So that he
would ask ... What is this? What is this that is happening? It is this
falling of the Spirit on a town... men are awakened to their terrible
condition. There is a new seeking of God.. a real repentance of sin.
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5173
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Catholic Question about John 6
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on: April 19, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
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Or, maybe you'd like to stop and take a breather for awhile? If so, i'll hike ahead and meet you there. soc..
they may want you to move on.. but i will persevere through this in
prayer and responding... maybe we can come to an agreement. I like the
ways of Socratic conversation.... I have a very high level of
personal groveling in small things. I think i spent 2 yrs going through
freedom of the will... a master piece and worth every minute of it.
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5175
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: Is Jesus LORD of your life??
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on: April 19, 2009, 09:13:40 AM
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Making Jesus the Lord is laughable. The only
reason there are going to be the Saints and the aints ....going into
eternity ... is by Jesus determining according to His secret will from
eternity past.Jesus is Lord because He does not answer to anyone.
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