Well , I have stepped out into the society of
pragmatism in this last two yrs. It is a world that is full of schemes
and hard hardheartedness. But there are other things planned for me of
which it is in transition. Because i have had the opportunity to live in
the old America, that one where family was the institution of learning
the unity of purpose that is necessary to develop a world view that is
secure. Every now and then i visit this old society and find there is a
unity of purpose. Oh man have we departed from these norms and purposes
that create a mind set of simple trust. Well, there is much praying to
do, much longing to accomplish and many battles to overcome in this new
direction. Here is where that ground has been broken up. How i long for
what is past, even tho God was gracious to extend His natural purposes
in a society that was in the past to be in the present. There are new
things to be accomplished here, but the motion of change has a potential
of being extremely dangerous. Oh man, its back to an all out war. I
know that just like He cause me to avoid the temptations of the world
gone crazy, that He would make this new journey even more fruitful. But
every now and then, i need to go back into what He made to protect me.
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5787
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is the believer's heart still "desperately wicked?"
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on: December 17, 2008, 12:21:45 PM
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Is
it possible to love God with all your heart if your heart remains dark
and prone to wander? Would God ask such a thing of us, knowing it sets
us up for failure? "You're required to love me with your truest self,
but you won't be able to. " It's similar to offering a man on death
row a pardon, releasing him from his debt, but then asking him to
function as a healed man in society.
How cruel it would be to
expect a man with a shattered leg to climb Everest, pressuring him to
be more committed to the task, admonishing him to have more faith, all
the while knowing he can only do it if his limb is first restored.
First,
you heal the man of the disease that sentenced him in the first place,
then you ask him to live the life of Jesus -- out of that restoration.
To be sure, there will continue to be competing desires in the
man, some of which will proceed from a flesh that is still being
crucified, yet he is still a new man with his identity firmly secured as
a restored man. "God became man to turn creatures into sons; not
simply to produce better men of the old kind but to produce a new kind
of man. " -- C. S. Lewis
What does it mean that we are 'new
creations in Christ' if it does not include the rescue of our hearts?
If we first stray with our hearts, we can also (following our rescue)
return with our hearts. The heart is at the center of it all.
Thanks
Jim, i am glad that you have decided to stick around here. It would be a
pleasure to continue our dialogue. We have some people here who have
been here for quite some time. After being here myself for quite awhile ,
i can say that SB attracts a lot of people who have experienced some
very tragic circumstances in their lives and believe that there is
nothing they can do to pull up their own boot straps and create a good
life for themselves. There are others who are physically suffering and
they have exhibited the most sincere faith since there is nothing they
can do about their ongoing pain. I have suffered depression on and off
for my whole adult life and SBs positive message of grace has been what
has attracted me to continue on in the faith. I guess i can accept the
fact that a believer can be a real live loser in this world not only in
his always being faced with financial disaster but suffering some kind
of emotional trauma from being treated roughly but having an ongoing
state of wanting to do the rite thing but always coming to the position
of frustration that he cannot do it. I guess you could say i am
attracted to people who give and get taken advantage of , of people who
have no resources to look to for security, and people who are at the
bottom of life. These are some of the most beautiful christian examples
that i have seen in my life time. It is true that we are
completely sanctified at our new birth. Not only are we declared
righteous in the courts of heaven but we are treated by Christ as if we
were His only object of affection. This is the glue that keeps us from
falling into the spirit of treachery so that we are the most glorious
ones in His site. Our failures prove His abundant love, that is we are
the objects of His ongoing grace because there is not a time in this
flesh were we have succeeded in proving to Him that we deserve His
grace. His grace proves to us that we can overcome by all of His
actions, communications , and willing authority as we face the future.
We are always coming to the point where we ask of going on in this
christian life, "Where else are we going to go Lord? You have the words
of eternal life." As He convinces us of His ongoing love , we
are more and more made aware of His the eternal nature of His ongoing
care over our well being. We are looking at Christ who has accomplished
all of the satisfactory work on our behalf , and now who is seated in
the heavenly , the only object of divine beauty that shines down to us
in the light of His care as a Shepperd over our souls. I would say there
is no way to explain this state of spiritual acceptance and awareness
other than to receive from Him all of our confidence in our failures.
There is not one thing that we can be confident that comes as a result
of our ability to do a task. We are what we are by the grace of God. If
we have the identity of Christ then there is nothing that we do in a
meta physical way or a way of body movements that is not preceded by the
grace and power of God. This is the sense in this illumination that we
have been emptied of self so that we might be filled with a confidence
and an assurance that we know His voice and we follow Him. In this way
the grace that we experience as a result of this voice is irresistible
in His working out all things for our good as He is working in us to
will and to do. We glory in our weakness so that we might look upon Him
with all of the power and glory and find in Him all of our rest from
this world. If we by chance have been enabled to receive this kind of
Holy Spirit assurance may we bow down to Him in all of our weaknesses
and failures and worship Him by exalting His divine rite to do as He
wills in this universe of God haters. May we be filled with His power so
that we might be made aware of understanding this identity we have that
there is nothing that can separate us from His love. When we are most
dependent is when we are most at rest. I am compelled to
write for my friends but i am the least to have a trust through the pain
than they have experienced. One day my friends this will all be over.
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5788
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christian Doctrine: Augustine (345-430)
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on: December 16, 2008, 04:50:57 PM
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Chap. 3.—Among signs, words hold the chief place
4.
Of the signs, then, by which men communicate their thoughts to one
another, some relate to the sense of sight, some to that of hearing, a
very few to the other senses. For, when we nod, we give no sign except
to the eyes of the man to whom we wish by this sign to impart our
desire. And some convey a great deal by the motion of the hands: and
actors by movements of all their limbs give certain signs to the
initiated, and, so to speak, address their conversation to the eyes: and
the military standards and flags convey through the eyes the will of
the commanders. And all these signs are as it were a kind of visible
words. The signs that address themselves to the ear are, as I have said,
more numerous, and for the most part consist of words. For though the
bugle and the flute and the lyre frequently give not only a sweet but a
significant sound, yet all these signs are very few in number compared
with words. For among men words have obtained far and away the chief
place as a means of indicating the thoughts of the mind. Our Lord, it is
true, gave a sign through the odour of the ointment which was poured
out upon His feet; and in the sacrament of His body and blood He
signified His will through the sense of taste; and when by touching the
hem of His garment the woman was made whole, the act was not wanting in
significance. But the countless multitude of the signs through which men
express their thoughts consist of words. For I have been able to put
into words all those signs, the various classes of which I have briefly
touched upon, but I could by no effort express words in terms of those
signs.
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5789
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Cleaving to God
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on: December 16, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
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"One thing more I would observe, before I
conclude this section; and that is, that if it derogates nothing from
the glory of God to be necessarily determined by superior fitness in
some things, then neither does it to be thus determined in all things;
from any thing in the nature of such necessity, as at all detracting
from God’s freedom, independence, absolute supremacy, or any dignity or
glory of his nature, state, or manner of acting; or as implying any
infirmity, restraint, or subjection. And if the thing be such as well
consists with God’s glory, and has nothing tending at all to detract
from it; then we need not be afraid of ascribing it to God in too many
things, lest thereby we should detract from God’s glory too much." J
Edwards My.... my, i am in awe at the depth of this writing. "for
that the gospel abates from the holiness of the law, and makes that to
be no sin which is sin by the law, or approves absolutely of less
intension or lower degrees in the love of God than the law does, is an
impious imagination." Owen Bill my mind is in a fog , working at
nite. I will explain this little tid bit by Mr Edwards and Owen as it
relates to our identity in Christ.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is the believer's heart still "desperately wicked?"
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on: December 15, 2008, 06:05:48 PM
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The
goodness I speak of is not humanly constructed. It is only Christ who
has made the believer good. It is his righteousness that is now
ours.
I think i understand what you are saying. I think
we need to keep our identity and Christ identity in very defined terms.
Because this whole identity paradigm is that what i fail to do in my
own identity He did completely. So that at any point that i say He
belongs to me because we share in this same ability, then i place myself
as being judged in the same way that He was able to complete His work
on my behalf. I am only represented in my identity by a confidence in
His authority alone, that is He has all of these promises for me because
of His name and not my faithfulness. I want to raise the identity level
to the highest paradigm i possibly can. I want to think that if there
is any kind of focus in my life that is worth that kind of reward then
it must rise above my own understanding of what reward and punishment is
all about. So that my understanding of my identity in Him is clearly
and fully brought to an eternal focus that He gets all the glory. If
there is a transference to me personally of any obedience that Christ
has done then my question is how do i meet that standard in myself. This
is a waste of time, this is counter productive to having a confidence
that is not my own. So that what i say to you about the identity of
Christ actually argues your point to me about my position in the
identity in a better and more confident way.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is the believer's heart still "desperately wicked?"
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on: December 15, 2008, 04:24:39 PM
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if you are saying that there is an inherent righteousness here
I'm not saying it...Paul said it.
I
believe that given the reasoning of the apostle in lite of the rest of
scripture about the state of a mans own heart, that in order for us to
be honest before God every man must weigh his good deeds against the
righteousness of Christ. If you can stand before God in your own good
deeds then there is no need of Christ. If you can stand in any good
work that you did, then it must meet the level of Christ obedience.
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5793
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is the believer's heart still "desperately wicked?"
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on: December 15, 2008, 04:12:53 PM
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The "Good News" the Church often preaches manages our behavior and suffocates the heart.
Within
much of evangelicalism today, there is a pressure to be holy that is
sabotaging the life Christians are looking for, producing shame and
frustration for many believers. The Church has turned God into a
behavior-modification therapist—managing external behaviors—while
missing the life of the heart.
In fact, what Christians have been told about their hearts is killing them.
Hi Jim One of my favorite passages touches on this subject, but I don't think many Christians actually believe it... Colossians 1 21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he
has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present
you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from
the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and
that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I,
Paul, have become a servant.
If you are
saying that there is an inherent righteousness here then you must weigh
the standard of performance against the standard that God requires in
conformity to the law. I do not see any man meeting these requirements.
Otherwise who is to say when we are we can determine when we have
reached the standard that we are without blame. We are terrible judges
before the law ourselves let alone determining this as a way of assuring
someone else. He simply saying that those who are in Christ will persevere.
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5794
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is the believer's heart still "desperately wicked?"
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on: December 15, 2008, 03:58:22 PM
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I
agree. Sin isn't an irrational choice simply because we know
something to be sin. However, it is irrational precisely because we no longer want
it. Our core (deepest, truest) desires have changed (are now good and
noble) because those core desires now flow from a new heart
Having
said that, not all our desires are good and noble. Desires may have
their source in the ruined heart (former self), ruined world, or ruined
angels (the Enemy and his foul ones. )
Though seemingly buried or
obscured, the new heart (spirit/will) is now the ruling center of the
believer. Paul suggests that "your spirit is alive because of
righteousness" (Romans 8:10). "Now if I do what I don't want to do, it is no longer I who do it,
but it is sin living in me that does it. " (Romans 7) Sin is present,
but no longer our true nature -- no longer central to our identity.
Otherwise,
how could we "Trust the Lord with all your heart" if that heart is
easily mislead, corrupt, and diseased? It would not be capable of such a
thing.
Great discussion.
I agree that
we have been changed into a new creature in Christ. Although i do not
think that the declaration of being righteous involves an inherent
righteousness in us. Or giving us a new ability to be found to make a
rite choice by this declaration. It can be described that if i
choose to do something there is a cause of my choosing. Otherwise there
is no choice. Every choice is from a desire to do it. I cannot say that i
did it but i did not desire it. Thats like saying i did it but i did
not do it. Or i did it but there was no reason for my doing it. So when
i choose to sin my desire to sin is stronger than my desire to do what
is according the the nature of the spiritually good. Otherwise there
would be no cause that i own in my soul. In a way i think we actually do
the deed in our mind before we perform the act.
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5795
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Cleaving to God
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on: December 15, 2008, 03:49:08 PM
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the
more and more I become acquainted with God's character, the more I
realize that these are things that He has to love out of us.
TB, You
are right on track. Maybe our part is to agree with God about the
things that need changing in our lives, and to ask Him to change us. On
the inside. An example in my own life. After I was saved, I wall
still having problems with cursing. At the time, I had a godly
father-in-law who I respected greatly. On one occasion, I cursed in his
presence, and felt really bad about it. Latter that night, in prayer I
asked God to help me and change me. Remarkably, He began to change that
area of my life, and very soon it was no longer a stronghold in my life.
The point was, He had to do it, I couldn't and knew it. Bill
Bill
i just want to clarify something here. In light of taking the Lords
name in vain, our speech should always be seasoned with salt. But i
think that the Lord taught the spirit of the law as well as the outward
and formal standard. I think this would include misrepresenting His name
as well. Or treating these things as mundane. In bringing into light
the spirit of the law Christ was saying that it was impossible for us to
meet the requirements of the law. In this case we must meet the
requirement of an eternal standard since His authority or name is
represented in His eternal nature. I know you would agree with
me that just because we stop saying curse words that it doesnt mean we
have obeyed this command. Because there is only one Man who obeyed the
spirit of the law. This is meant to exalt Christ and show us the state
of our hearts as we are confronted with the law. I wish that there was
something positive i could find in the law that would give me a motive
to obey. But its not there in the law. Its in the obedience of Christ.
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5796
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Is the believer's heart still "desperately wicked?"
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on: December 15, 2008, 03:29:01 PM
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Yes; and the battle with the flesh (former self) can be brutal at times. However, sin is no longer our fundamental nature:
Holiness is. We may choose sin still, but that choice, for the
believer, is an irrational one, given his new nature. The promise of a
new heart is the promise of Ezekiel 36: 26, Jeremiah 31: 31, much of
Romans, etc. As we walk with God, we learn to live from that place of
goodness and purity.
Further, we can't allow our experience of
sin, and the awful struggle it can be, to define the truth of our new
identity. (In other words, our subjective experience of something
should not drive the objective reality of God's work in and for us. )
Hope this makes sense.
You
mentioned that it was an irrational choice. But that is not just
because we are believers. I mean just because we know what to do or what
is morally rite doesnt mean that we are going to do it. Therefore we
cannot trust that we can obey strictly from a knowledge of the law. I do
not believe that the corruption involves just that we know what to do,
but it involves the desire to do it as well. There is more than just a
head knowledge here since we know but we still give in. Its not just
irrational, its part of our desire. What do you think. Have you read
Edwards on freedom of the will?
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.
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on: December 15, 2008, 10:07:41 AM
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I love this Psalm because of the honesty in
which the Psalmist admits that he is not very smart when it comes to
seeing the things that are happening to him and in his circumstances as
being of value to his learning. Not only does it naturally become a
tendency in us to react to our circumstances, but we sometimes cannot
see past the guilt and shame of our sins. Our tendency in this life is
to see all of the negative things from within and without as defining
the level of acceptance we have in this world as we read the spiritual
tea leaves so to speak. But the Psalmist is determined, that is he makes
these statements that are like deep convictions, that he is going to
see the goodness of the Lord tho things appear to be going extremely
bad.
Our identity in Christ no longer is defined by our struggle
with our sins. Because Christ has taken the punishment on Himself and He
has satisfied the wrath of God in order that we might have full
acceptance in the presence of our Father as we come before Him to be
taught His ways. If He should hold us eternally accountable for our sins
then we would be crushed and without hope in this life. But He deals
with us as an earthly Father to his children. God disciplines us for our
good and not because of our present struggles. This is the confidence
we have before a holy God, that He will do for us as He promises and not
what it appears to us from our view of all of the troubles in this
life.
This Psalm has a kind of step action paradigm in it. Maybe
its a Psalm to be quoted as we are walking along through the day. It
kind of follows a progression from the focus of coming before a Holy God
and bringing our troubles, the people around us that are causing some
of the troubles and the uncertainty we have as we step out into the
world. In this sense then what ever we believe about God will be how we
know Him to be our present help as we are facing the turbulence of being
in this world that is full of troubles. So that we are who we think we
are. We are as we understand who God is as to how He teaches that level
to our understanding and we know ourselves as we understand the level of
trust we have in Gods workings. Then it goes out into the general pace
of our lives.
That is we learn our steps so to speak as we are
not burdened with the anxiety of our lack of understanding. I mean a
close examination of this Psalm has this kind of transition in the pace
of our lives. Some of us need to speed up, some need to slow down, but
whatever the new understanding of Him teaching us His ways then it
defines our pace which has an effect on our countenance or our general
state of living in a spiritual disposition.
Let me say one
more thing here. This determination to follow these different grace
related spiritual effects to deepen our understanding of walking in His
ways is this mysterious work down before us so that we are confounded as
to the nature of our circumstances. There are times for everything. So
that the pace is not necessarily a succession of normal smooth straight
road. But there are these things that we cannot understand because we do
not see the total picture. Here then we can find so much uncertainty in
His mystery that we are confounded into a general lethargic
disposition. Not only do we have a problem with this experience being so
personal to us in the effects of this doubt, but we have people around
us who speak this kind of doubt without realizing it. Now faith is
trusting that everything in our lives is determined by God for our good.
But then the general understanding of mankind is to withdrawal from
this vision of Gods workings to these peripheral things of a lack of
faith, even some of the most righteous looking people. And then the
voices of the world cause us to retreat into a general anxiety of fear, a
level of double mindedness , seeing that Gods ways are seasonal and
mans ways are measured in feelings and effects . But sometimes faith
requires us to know that Gods ways do not always appear to be practical
in the ways men design to know and walk. God has a view so that we will
always be confounded by the circumstance. I guess that faiths cry is
wanting a level path and not wanting necessarily to find the mystery in
how God is working.
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5801
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Dispairing
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on: December 13, 2008, 02:54:47 PM
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Most people have not been under the paradigm
of contemplating the lowly way of despairing. But Christ has gone this
way and is acquainted with speaking to His sheep who are burdened beyond
the ability to feel numb toward their own pain. Christ is in the pain
we experience since He speaks in every immense space that He is present
to act. Even tho He does not tempt us to despair yet He speaks to us in
the use of our sins and despair. There is pain in loneliness, in sorrow,
in grief, and shame. These things are too painful to deal with even
trying to connect with the flow of the worlds under lying conscious
cries to trust in something that is too painful to deal with because He
does not answer in a voice that is determined to help alleviate the pain
by bringing the proper focus and answers in a holistic way in
communicating loud enough to overcome the worlds attractions. So there
is a disconnect in this sinful world, we go through the experience of
pain in a hope that we can find enough hope in Him speaking loud enough
that we are not alone, and that we can find enough relief in trying to
fine His comfort in the future longing of loneliness. For sometimes pain
is expressed in the experience of hoping in something that is not above
the level of the experience of loneliness. So that Christ is speaking
in the midst of this experience of shame as a result of the length of
the term of not finding enough relief in order to feel the sense of hope
that the desire will be a lightening of the weight of grief.
Just
like a bird alone on a roof. That is there is a potential for that bird
to fly, yet even if he were to experience the flying yet there would be
no way to find the relief in flying. So the bird looks out over the end
of the roof and he is all alone. He is stuck on the roof. There is no
ability to find relief in any potential workings that he was created to
perform in order to experience the working of pleasure in Gods pleasure
in using these natural gifts. God is using the mournful work to develop a
view that there is value in being on the roof looking out for something
that is uncertain and yet frustrated by not having the ability to
perform that task. There is some value in God bringing about this
pushing His active power to make us passive in this sense. To be over
sorrowful is what brings about these different longings of what could be
found in the low experiences of our view of who we are before His
powerful upholding as if we were pushed down in order to be caught by
Him. I think ive been here.... yes , i am here, well..... i dont forget ,
Hi.
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5803
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Heart of God displayed in the Heart of David.
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on: December 11, 2008, 04:39:06 PM
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Thanks MxA,
If we crawl into the mind
of David we will see that He was unlike all the other kings in the
history of kingship. I think David really, uh, i mean really believed
the God was the king. In this way David was the most dependent king who
displayed a selfless exercise of power that is unexplainable. We would
think of most kings who only need to say a word and it would be done, to
be corrupted by this kind of absolute human exercised authority. But
David had a monster heart. I cant recall the scripture giving us an
incident where he actually took revenge on his personal enemies>
himself.
Now he was a warrior for sure , but not personally
vindictive in how he conducted his personal forgiveness and
relationships. Maybe he displayed the worse kind of violence in the
adultery and murder but he hated himself for it. He received the outcome
of it with graciousness. And he displayed Gods heart in how he was long
suffering with some of the people in his kingdom who meant to do him
harm. Oh my if there was anyone more of an example of letting God take
vengeance it was king David. I do not think we really understand how the
kind of power that God gave David would have corrupted every other
king. Its amazing to me to think how he was able to keep such a lowly
view of himself, even to the point where people say that he trusted
people too much, he forgave when he should have disciplined. But David
had such a wide acceptance of Gods love that we are in awe of looking at
the kind of attributes of a great king who treated everyone he came in
contact as if he were their father. He exhibited more of a fatherly care
over his kingdom than we could understand with that kind of authority.
And
his heart was for the helpless. It wasnt even that he was showing
himself off as a kind king. With David it was as if he were the most
humble in the kingdom who cared for this handicapped son of Johnathan.
Because David expressed his faith in dancing before the Lord, as he gave
God all the glory, then Israels days under that rule were its greatest
days in its history. If we could just lay our heads on the heart of
David we would see a man who beat to Gods heart beat.
I could write all day about King David. This king is in my blood.
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5804
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: a little Leaven..And Romans 7..
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on: December 11, 2008, 01:12:24 PM
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In chapt the apostle is describing our
position in Christ. It is one of completed grace. He is not saying that
we struggle with sin with the will to overcome it by choosing what is
best, or what is good. He is saying that we choose what we desire the
most. We choose based upon our nature. Our fundamental change is in our
will. We no longer belong to ourselves, that is we no longer under the
bondage from the old principle of the old nature. In other words we do
not go from choosing to sin in relationship to being in bondage to sin.
There is no longer two equal forces of power in us. We have been set
free from the power of sin. We are always obligated to look at our work
under the power of grace in order that we will not think wrong about
what is the cause, what is the means, and what is the ends in how God
works His purposes through us in this world. There is an application
here that must be understood in order for us to know these paradigms
that it is all of God, but it is really about us.The application is that
God does everything and we do everything.
So the apostle
describes this new nature as being a power in us that has change our
outlook on all the things in this world so that we have a fundamental
difference in our understanding how we see the objects in our minds eye
of reality. From the start of being made rite with God , we were given a
new position before God of peace. Before this grace was revealed to us
we had a very different understanding of our relation to God. We were
enemies of God. We were naturally given to doing things our own way. We
wanted to do things for ourselves by designing a system that brought us
the best rewards. The problem with how we saw our abilities as we
related to others and to the moral law was that we would rather take
credit for doing something good than having a fundamental understanding
that what we thought and did was out of a warped view in our
understanding about the motives and ends for doing good. We wouldnt
admit to ourselves that our longings for doing anything in this life
were strictly for selfish reasons. First because we were blinded because
we did not have a desire to glorify God in the good. We thought that
our goodness was going to bring us rewards since there were these good
feelings about ourselves in our accomplishments. The problem was that we
did not have a stop mechanism to our own pride since we did not have
the ability to understand our real motives for doing good. This is why
there is no way for us to resolve our change in desire by desiring to do
good. All of the former desires were only in the end going to come to
nothing. Even the ones that we did in behalf of the good of others. No
matter how good of a system of doing good that we determined to do , it
was bound to fail. We would never get the things we longed for since we
are subject to death. Life was going to run out on us. We would be
forgotten. All our personal accomplishments would die along with our
leaving this earth.
The apostle had first hand experience of this.
He had the most learning that anyone could achieve in this life about
how to treat others. He was the most experienced communicator that this
world system has ever produced. He excelled everyone one in keeping the
requirements of men s laws. The more he wanted to produce a good outcome
the more he fought against grace. Its not that he was able to get to a
point where he changed by seeing that he was doing something from wrong
motives. It was that he was going to destroy everyone in his way and he
was going to end up as with the most heinous crimes ever committed on
this earth. He was desiring through his good principles to eliminate
Gods people from this earth.
The apostle is not saying that the
christian life gives us the ability through our new desires to do more
good on this earth than the best unbelievers. We do not start from a
focus on our ability as the cause of our being able to present ourselves
as equal in good works or better and more. If we think this way then i
do not see any difference in how we measure our own abilities with the
old way we measured them. The focus is on what Christ has done since our
cause of wanting to do good has been by all of the desires that are
from a new origin. We cannot see ourselves as the causes of this
goodness, then means of doing this goodness, or the ends for which we do
this goodness. And even when we do it the principle of grace causes us
to be forgetful of our personal interest in the ends for doing it.
Theres
not really anything good in us in order to be able to take credit in
the functioning faculties of our experience. Even tho these new desires
are personal desires yet we are corrupted in our mind and understanding
so that there is never a time where we meet the standard of performing
these moral abilities. Otherwise then there would be another reason than
giving Christ all the glory for us to share in that performance. So
that we have this eternal paradigm in the salvation of sinners. We want
to know God by His revelation. We desire to know the whole law of God.
We love the law by our new will. We long to do rite in order to meet
the requirements of the law. But ever time we come to measure ourselves
by the whole counsel we see our total corruption in every part of this
working principle. There is nothing wrong with counting ourselves as
wicked in this sense. After all freedom is expressed in choosing for
ourselves what we desire the most. And if we see that we desire Christ
the most then we must uncover all of our corruption. Or at least have a
universal understanding of our corruption. For me to live is Christ and
to die is gain.If we spend time thinking about our ability then we will
never understand the growing in Him. We in essence will fight against
the grace that is the cause means and ends of our salvation. When we see
that we fall short of all of the law , we are seeing that His love is
the only thing that we have as the consistent cause of all things
working.
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5805
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Forums / Main Forum / Re: A Month of Thankfulness
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on: December 11, 2008, 11:06:09 AM
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We are always obligated to give God praise and
spend time extolling Him for His goodness to us in worshiping Him
privately. The most obnoxious christian is a self determiner who trust
in keeping the law by keeping score. Christ has freed sinners, that is
criminals who are all determined to be punished forever for the most
heinous crimes of rebellion. Thats why rebellion is like the sin of
witch craft. Men set up other objects in place of God and worship them.
God looks down from heaven and declares that there is no one good no not
one. We all come into the church building holding a beer in our hands
so that the bottles must be collected after the preaching. We bring in
other loves into His worship and we show that we are rebels by it. We
come to Him not only as people who practice the little sins, but we come
before Him as practicing what He considers criminal.
We are also
seen as being sent into captivity in this world system. We are also
political prisoners being taken captive by the evil world system. There
is only one way to escape this worlds bondage. God has come to His
people and declared that He will set the captive free. Every christian
has been declared guilty before the throne of God and has been sentenced
to punishment for his crimes that would keep him in chains for all
eternity. But God has come in Christ who was punished with criminals and
was punished as a criminal so that He might lead a host of political
and moral captives into His worship. This is how He displays His glory
to the earth. This is how He rules from on high. Because He does not
hear the groans of healthy people. He hears the groans of prisoners.
Gods salvation is to set the captive free. We are all guilty before God
ready to be brought before the judge so that we might be condemned to
eternal punishment by a Holy Judge. But Christ has come not only as our
defense lawyer but as our substitute. He has satisfied the wrath of God
so that we might be declared not guilty in the court of heaven. Every
time we sin we are reminded that we are should be declared to be put
into a cell for all eternity but by Gods grace He has set the captive
free. If we by chance are made able to beg for His mercy, if we are made
to groan over our offenses , if by chance we are made to ask for
pardon, then that is the state of a person who comes to God who does not
trust in his own righteousness. But if we think that we are any
different than the worse criminal then we are not seeing our
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