5890	Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Steve's series on prayer	on: November 14, 2008, 12:37:41 PM
Mic. vii. 7, 'I 7.  But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me.  9.  I will bear the indignation of the LORD Because I have sinned against Him, Until He pleads my case and executes justice for me. He will bring me out to the light, And I will see His righteousness. "and as he thus waited for a vision, for sometimes their prophecies were in answer to their prayers, so should we for an answer unto ours. " Thomas Goodwin  Hab 1:1.  I will stand on my guard post And station myself on the rampart; And I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me, And how I may reply when I am reproved. 2.  Then the LORD answered me and said, "Record the vision And inscribe it on tablets, That the one who reads it may run. Job 21 15.  `Who is the Almighty, that we should serve Him, And what would we gain if we entreat Him?' 1 John v. 14, 15, 'This is the confidence that we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us.' Eccles. vin. 11, 'sentence against an evil-doer is not presently executed;' it is presently sentenced, as the words imply, but not executed: so in like manner falleth it out when a godly man prays, that as soon as the prayer arrives in heaven, which is in an instant, so soon is the petition granted, -so Dan. ix. 23, 'At the beginning of his prayer the command came forth,'- though the angel, who brought the answer, arrived not at him till towards the end in the evening, ver. 21, - but the real accomplishment of it may be deferred. So as no prayer in respect of an answer to it is in vain; but where God hath given, a heart to speak, he hath an ear to hear: which not to regard, is to take an ordinance in vain, which is God's name. Thomas Goodwin  The indignation of the Lord as to how He works in this world is mainly His displaying His anger at sin with leaving a man to go his own course in this life. His normal way of working is from His goodness and not from His responding for every sin that is present in this world. He will respond one day in perfect justice. And at times His patience is tested so that He responds with terror. But as for the believers Christ has taken the full wrath of God. So that there is a view that we have in this world that is a view from grace in how God deals with His own who sin. Two things here. We are never to think that God has determined to destroy us in an accusatory way. This is to display a lack of faith in the finished work of Christ. If God does discipline us for our sins it is done for the purpose of helping us grow in our faith and it is done as a father treats his own children. For what child , if he ask for bread will give him a stone? So that we are always under the sovereign plan of God who works good in our sinning. Otherwise we would be with no hope because if we new and experienced the repaying of our sins we would have already been lost and destroyed. But God has already determined to remove our sins as far as the east is from the west. There is a well of forgetfulness in coming before Him as sheep who are in need of a Shepperd who is more able to keep us from sinning than we are able to keep from departing from the fold from our sin. So that Gods general determination is to rebuke us by bringing trouble to us through the national sins. So that we look at our having these troubles as tho we were receiving sorrow in this world in a national way as if we were being protected by God from the trouble that the other people who are not His children are receiving the effects of national sins. We are the ones who have not apostatized even tho the nation has grown to a level where they are testing Gods patience. And in this way we are looking out in the house of our Father and we are weeping over Jerusalem since we have Jesus as our only hope in this world. We are His disciples. But we need to see that the war is over our understanding of Gods salvation to us as we come before Him as sinners. We need to see that Gods anger is not directed at His sheep, His children , even tho we are experiencing the effects of Gods patience toward this world running out. So that we come to Him boldly even tho we have fallen or we are stumbling, losing the present battle. Because we are made to struggle in this world so that we will not have confidence in our own righteousness. And yet God is displaying His grace by answering a sinners prayer even tho at times the christian does things worse than the world does. Grace is not cheap by our looking like a sinner. Grace is cheap by our attitude of Gods mercy. Grace is cheap by our not being convinced that Christ work was more valuable than our own ability to persevere.  I dont think Jesus was standing over Jerusalem thinking and saying , oh that tension, no He was groaning for the day when all things will be renewed.
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5891  Forums / Politics Forum / Re: This is where we are on: November 14, 2008, 10:50:50 AM I agree in a sense that there are economic pressures that can make men go mad. A lot of people lost a lot of retirement money here. But i cant always put two and two together if i focus on man. Cause i am always amazed at how there is developed this ground swell for one candidate and not another. I have always believed that even tho we have these elections that there are unexplainable intangibles that are the undercurrent that goes into determining the general direction of what makes a candidate more appealing than another. If you go a certain way the general direction would always be in the degenerate heart the easiest way. Or what looks like the way that one would get more for himself. But this is not always the direction.  If the direction turns right then there is going to be a tendency to be less motivated since it is the hardest way in terms of how men love to think of themselves in light of their depravity. I believe that at some point society can get so depraved that there would be a point where men would give up their freedom for security even tho it was oppressive. Thats what depravity is defined as. But God only greases the tracks so to speak. Have we come to this point of no return? I mean there are some disturbing signs as far as the moral level we have come to in a general attitude in our country. Have we come to the point were God has turned us over to experience things that we have never seen happen in these 200 plus yrs. We shall see if this is the beginning of the end. Reply Quote Notify

5892  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Steve's series on prayer on: November 14, 2008, 10:25:38 AM Mic. vii. 7, 'I 7.  But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me.  9.  I will bear the indignation of the LORD Because I have sinned against Him, Until He pleads my case and executes justice for me. He will bring me out to the light, And I will see His righteousness. "and as he thus waited for a vision, for sometimes their prophecies were in answer to their prayers, so should we for an answer unto ours. " Thomas Goodwin  Hab 1:1.  I will stand on my guard post And station myself on the rampart; And I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me, And how I may reply when I am reproved. 2.  Then the LORD answered me and said, "Record the vision And inscribe it on tablets, That the one who reads it may run. Job 21 15.  `Who is the Almighty, that we should serve Him, And what would we gain if we entreat Him?' 1 John v. 14, 15, 'This is the confidence that we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us.' Eccles. vin. 11, 'sentence against an evil-doer is not presently executed;' it is presently sentenced, as the words imply, but not executed: so in like manner falleth it out when a godly man prays, that as soon as the prayer arrives in heaven, which is in an instant, so soon is the petition granted, -so Dan. ix. 23, 'At the beginning of his prayer the command came forth,'- though the angel, who brought the answer, arrived not at him till towards the end in the evening, ver. 21, - but the real accomplishment of it may be deferred. So as no prayer in respect of an answer to it is in vain; but where God hath given, a heart to speak, he hath an ear to hear: which not to regard, is to take an ordinance in vain, which is God's name. Thomas Goodwin  The indignation of the Lord as to how He works in this world is mainly His displaying His anger at sin with leaving a man to go his own course in this life. His normal way of working is from His goodness and not from His responding for every sin that is present in this world. He will respond one day in perfect justice. And at times His patience is tested so that He responds with terror. But as for the believers Christ has taken the full wrath of God. So that there is a view that we have in this world that is a view from grace in how God deals with His own who sin. Two things here. We are never to think that God has determined to destroy us in an accusatory way. This is to display a lack of faith in the finished work of Christ. If God does discipline us for our sins it is done for the purpose of helping us grow in our faith and it is done as a father treats his own children. For what child , if he ask for bread will give him a stone? So that we are always under the sovereign plan of God who works good in our sinning. Otherwise we would be with no hope because if we new and experienced the repaying of our sins we would have already been lost and destroyed. But God has already determined to remove our sins as far as the east is from the west. There is a well of forgetfulness in coming before Him as sheep who are in need of a Shepperd who is more able to keep us from sinning than we are able to keep from departing from the fold from our sin. So that Gods general determination is to rebuke us by bringing trouble to us through the national sins. So that we look at our having these troubles as tho we were receiving sorrow in this world in a national way as if we were being protected by God from the trouble that the other people who are not His children are receiving the effects of national sins. We are the ones who have not apostatized even tho the nation has grown to a level where they are testing Gods patience. And in this way we are looking out in the house of our Father and we are weeping over Jerusalem since we have Jesus as our only hope in this world. We are His disciples. But we need to see that the war is over our understanding of Gods salvation to us as we come before Him as sinners. We need to see that Gods anger is not directed at His sheep, His children , even tho we are experiencing the effects of Gods patience toward this world running out. So that we come to Him boldly even tho we have fallen or we are stumbling, losing the present battle. Because we are made to struggle in this world so that we will not have confidence in our own righteousness. And yet God is displaying His grace by answering a sinners prayer even tho at times the christian does things worse than the world does. Grace is not cheap by our looking like a sinner. Grace is cheap by our attitude of Gods mercy. Grace is cheap by our not being convinced that Christ work was more valuable than our own ability to persevere.  Reply Quote Notify

5893	Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: Steve's series on prayer	on: November 14, 2008, 10:00:56 AM
Mic. vii. 7, 'I 7.  But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me.  9.  I will bear the indignation of the LORD Because I have sinned against Him, Until He pleads my case and executes justice for me. He will bring me out to the light, And I will see His righteousness. "and as he thus waited for a vision, for sometimes their prophecies were in answer to their prayers, so should we for an answer unto ours. " Thomas Goodwin  Hab 1:1.  I will stand on my guard post And station myself on the rampart; And I will keep watch to see what He will speak to me, And how I may reply when I am reproved. 2.  Then the LORD answered me and said, "Record the vision And inscribe it on tablets, That the one who reads it may run. Job 21 15.  `Who is the Almighty, that we should serve Him, And what would we gain if we entreat Him?' 1 John v. 14, 15, 'This is the confidence that we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us.' Eccles. vin. 11, 'sentence against an evil-doer is not presently executed;' it is presently sentenced, as the words imply, but not executed: so in like manner falleth it out when a godly man prays, that as soon as the prayer arrives in heaven, which is in an instant, so soon is the petition granted, -so Dan. ix. 23, 'At the beginning of his prayer the command came forth,'- though the angel, who brought the answer, arrived not at him till towards the end in the evening, ver. 21, - but the real accomplishment of it may be deferred. So as no prayer in respect of an answer to it is in vain; but where God hath given, a heart to speak, he hath an ear to hear: which not to regard, is to take an ordinance in vain, which is God's name. Thomas Goodwin http://www.newble.co.uk/goodwin/return.html 5895  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: November 13, 2008, 12:39:51 PM Paul did not want to take the simplicity in Christ for granted. Since the world flesh and devil are actively trying to convince us that our spiritual gifts are of very little consequence in the working power of how to get along in the world, then we might be tempted to depending on our own ability. Once we are gifted to be in the position to remind ourselves and others of the value of Christ work on our behalf, then as if we are given to an attitude of complacency over the sameness , then we are tempted to have a certain stiffness so that we become religious rather than personal. I guess in this sense Paul was looking from a position of blessing and realizing that in his position as an apostle , understanding in experiencing the power of Christ that he would treat these things in a man centered way. Its not a fear as if the fall would happen over nite. But it was a respect that it was a tendency to be declining over a long period of time. In this way he is not connecting it to his ongoing struggle with sin but as a general condition of declension. 5898  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: November 13, 2008, 09:12:05 AM Fear is the engine that drives a person to some kind of level of desperation. And this paradigm is not eliminated by our ongoing experience in salvation. Because the fear that has the element of terror is from a self awareness understanding that is based in a sinful knowledge as an affection that connects us to the realms of a terrible misrepresentation of reality. Inordinate fear is not knowing experiential that God is a God who is near.  This is our sinful tendency that under minds all of our completeness in enjoying God consistently. Because any understanding in relation to the power of a sinful paradigm to think that we should be protective in retreating from the reality of all that God has called us to be and do has the paradigm of sorrow to effect our experiencing of God and His power over sinful reflections. There is a sense in which we are made to have a steady stream of pleasure that comes from extolling God in the illumination of His working in us to know Him by the power of His resurrection so that we experience His exaltation as our conquering High Priest. We are made to have a refuge in Him by receiving comfort not as if grace was automatically giving us a perfect understanding of this resurrection power to keep us from any kind of dissociation with our fallen condition, but that we are always determined to seek Him in order that He might bring us into a saving understanding unto a new conversion ,so that we are always reminded that He alone saves. Well we are blessed in finding an ongoing comfort by having a personal knowledge of our tendency to find our relief in a knowledge that is corrupted. So that we find very little comfort in our own strength. 5913  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Religious Toleration and the End of Morality on: November 12, 2008, 11:05:53 AM I believe that society is made up of men who seek power by control. And all idol worship has this threading environment. Otherwise the mindset of the kinds of hierarchy would be convincing one person who worships a different kind of god to agree with someone who is more powerful who worships at the altar of his particular god to be convinced that he is rite by a pragmatic paradigm. That is just foolish and separates passion and desire from the human experience. Because what ever people trust in carries the weight of love and hate. So that in the communities of these different paradigms of power struggle there is this environment of boundaries that have this threatening component. Such that Paul was preaching the gospel to people who made idols and who had the component of free market idealism. Take away their profits and you are immediately cast into a world of a war of words and systems of ideas that are structurally set for men to profit and control.  This is the nature of evil that exist in the world. We are involved in a holy war of what people trust in as what that kind of environment has as its norms in peoples minds. We see things that do not appear, we determine the abnormality of this intense hatred by being under the obligation to know and feel what is real in a world of the mixture of false assumptions that are under the surface as if we were in a war where pain was the means by which we are made to feel and act in a certain way. Yes, Christ does give us wisdom, not just in a war of the intellectual , but He has given us the power to determine for everyone, what is going to be the proper way of living in the world. In a sense , spiritually speaking, we are either crucified or we are a hermit. I hope that we are not the frog in the hot pan. 5914  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Do tv shows cause/encourage people to sin? on: November 12, 2008, 10:06:03 AM I think we need to if we can , without too much susceptibility use our gifts as we are called to do. And even tho we struggle , sometimes its better to be in a position by being in the company of people who are caught in the mindset of the world and in sin so that we would offer them the gospel of hope and love. And its not necessarily trying to give them the gospel 24 seven. We are to dispense the gospel as if we were planting the seeds of a world view that is better than the worlds. I do not think it is for everyone. But, its perfectly legitimate to drink with the world in a setting that we would consider less than familiar with our christian world view and know what our limits are. Uh, we are to be the light every where we go.  Do we struggle with sin? Yes. Do we risk being judged by others who do not understand? Well, think about this. Christ who was perfect came into the world while Mary was engaged so the both Mary and Joseph suffered the problems with false accusations about what went on. And Jesus was accused of being illegitimate for all of his ministry. I mean He subjected Himself to the worst accusations for the worse sinners even tho He did no wrong. This was part of His displaying His love for the world. His yoke was easy while their accusations were like spears.  And we on the other hand deserve some of the stories that are said about us , so that if we are to stand for Christ, then we are made to feel very small in this world. How can we feel small if we are just always examining ourselves in our little christian societies? Uh come on , now, here we are as believers who work in the world and we are around this environment that is practically speaking a holy war of what to think about temptation. Ok, we deal with this all the time. And we learn to think practically as we face real people with real temptations just like us. The only difference is that we know were to go for relief. And if we are made to feel dirty, then we are going to grow, other wise why would we be subject to manual labor if we have a different perspective on the high position in Christ and yet never experience being the royalty of high positions in this world?  Cause growing spiritually is growing down. Sometimes God puts us in situations where we have the worse jobs with worse wages and yet we are made to work harder for His glory. Come now, this is real christian living.  I mean we are tempted to be so fake. Put me in that group. Ok, we are made to risk everything sometimes as we are called in order to gain Christ. I mean, if we are placed in a situation where we carry that word of life to someone who is caught in sin, then we are planting seeds of life that will be used by God to further His kingdom. Unless we know what is going on in the world then how are we going to identify with the people in the world? I mean it is good to have these high experiences of christian experience. But we still must bring that encouraged environment into the dread of men who are following after their natural disposition.  And we do risk being labeled.