Loneliness

The christian self is experienced when we experience death to whatever prevents us from our purpose. The self is being fully engaged its purpose as we understand the line between mystery and reality.  How can you understand yourself doing something for the wrong reasons? Obviously there is a greater weight that prevents the self from all that the self is in achieving that purpose. As to living in mystery the self is forgotten. As to living in reality the self is enjoying complete freedom of purpose. When we acknowledge the limitations we have understood the legal limits of self. To be just we must put to death any imagination that our real self is understood in mystery. If our real self is all that Christ is then we are true when we image that self. If we are identified with Christ then we are mysteriously united with Him in all that He is. Do we understand ourselves as Christ understands Himself? Obviously not. But Christ has not prevented us from having the success according to all that He is. Anything that prevents us from being successful in Christ is destructive. When I say that we can be successful in knowing who we are by who Christ is ...is because He has destroyed destruction. His purpose is to justify all that we do because of all that He has already done. If we are to understand our true self then it must be in the way it is communicated to us. All created reality is pure , right , and just because it is ordered by the perfect communication of God. In this sense we are at every moment what God has decreed how things work together. But everything that God communicates has not been revealed. But God has revealed to us a simple way to understand everything by giving us the spoken word. All of His revealed words are Trinitarian. We have what He has revealed and a more detailed mysterious communication. But we have the full understanding of self because it is spoken in a way that we receive it holistically. It is spoken in laws, decrees, commands and promises. All of these different forms of speech are given to us through pronouncements. These pronouncements overturn disorder. The true self is always experienced when we come to the true line of blessing and cursing. Because we understand the reality of what is mystery and what is revealed.

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167  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 19, 2014, 11:49:58 AM In my opinion we are born being disconnected in experience from every thing around us. This is why our working principle is to replace the void with incorporating a part of the whole. In my opinion this is a temporary fix. Our experience both human and physical comes from the unity that our ancestors achieved. This unity is interwoven in the dna and spiritual paradigms. Our natural state is to experience separation through a divided self experience. When we are born again we experience life. This life begins from a very small embryo of unity and as we grow to experience the eternal verities we lose the disconnection to creation and the boundaries of time. This renewal is described as Christ in us. Our purpose is rooted in the unity with all things through our spiritual experiences breaking into time. When our past spiritual experiences break into our present experience then we experience completeness. The more we experience eternity the more our past comes into the present. In a sense this experience connects us to the eternity past that unites us to our ancestors. We find that we generate new life into our desires from Gods eternal counsel. Reply Quote Notify

168  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 18, 2014, 01:03:15 PM I do not believe I can control my life. So Ive always been very simple in my plan of action. I get up in the morning a have a view that if I get my heart happy then everything else is icing on the cake. I focus on one thing only. So whatever I encounter does not occupy my mind as if it was the end of the world. I found out through living with this view for so long that I always enjoyed life as like I was at a party. You know that when people party there is not a lot of weighty issues that get on the way of having fun. Even tho in public I was careless in how I interacted with people yet in private I was ferocious in using the Psalms to create a kind of utopian society that I interacted in. I seek to destroy the destructive spirits and try to take captive those thoughts that would keep people around me in bondage. If I did not see and experience a level of freedom in my interactions I was motivated to a.more passionate pronouncing in private. In private I would not put with the potential trouble. I have experience a level of shared freedom in my interactions in establishing these disciplines. Reply Quote Notify

169  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Lonely David pleads for God's turning on: August 17, 2014, 03:48:44 PM We are made to feel something. We usually feel after we think of something. But because we are corrupted in our faculties our souls are not functioning as one. If we are confronted by a bad experience we naturally begin to feel adversity. And if we are confronted with a good experience we feel good. But in this world the vision of good and bad is turned upside down. Christ was always consistent with His reactions. His approach was simple. He did exactly as He said He would do. But we are very complicated because our action never matches our words perfectly. This means that our mind doesnt discern everything that we are confronted with and our feelings do not always line up with our reactions. This is why we need the word and Spirit because it searches our hearts and and discerns the intents separating the soul and spirit. That is it brings us to the dividing line of blessing and cursing. But God is perfect in His desires. His word is an expression of His desire. If God did not feel then we would not know the feeling of pleasure, pain, or anger. The fact that God feels is part of His searching our hearts. In other words whatever problems we have, being confused about how we feel, being hardened by anger, or being tempted by lust , God searches our hearts exposing our inward desires and reorders our feelings or consumes our feelings. But we are required to read and understand the word of God.  14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. If God searches our hearts He does it by His word. The word is a perfect expression of the perfect man. It gives us a holistic understanding of the perfect spirit of Christ. So we find in the Psalms the description of the emotional life of Christ. The description of governments, evil, the wicked ,the righteous, pleasure and desire. These words are pronouncements that reorder all the descriptions of this disorder. We can say that fountain of feelings is rooted in perfect justice. Christ emotional life was expressed with perfect justice because His soul was perfectly aligned. All of the experience of Christ was legally binding. I do not believe we can separate feelings with action. Ive heard people say even tho you dont feel it just do it. This is a very dangerous view of life. We have a responsibility to examine everything. We are not automatons trying to act correctly but we have Christ living inside of us, by identity "for me to live is Christ." I will discuss later how our souls are like an empty vessels that get filled up.       Reply Quote Notify

170  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 17, 2014, 02:18:38 PM Now the post have begun to take a Freudian turn. lol First I do not believe that we can just divide all of these family relationships , examine each one of them and make a wide sweep about how a child turns out. Once we say absolutely that this is the process and this is the diagnosis then we are guilty of judging that person. Having lived in this culture it amuses me how precise this kind of language is and how destructive it is to a person who is forever labeled. It kind of reminds me of the soap operas where the whole story is built on old wives tales. I do not believe that a person sexual performance is dependent upon the relationship of the family. Rather I believe it has to do with body image. I m not one who spiritualizes the union of a man and a woman. Rather the success that part of the relationship is about two people being comfortable in their own skin. So you can have someone who is promiscuous who has a better understanding of their bodies than a religious person. The bible says that when the child is rejected by the mother and father that the Lord will receive them. I do not believe the end result of the parents relationship should be that the child has healthy relationships but that person understands their identity in Christ. I do not believe there is any child that has a one hundred percent healthy relationship with their parents. There are so many variables of the reasons about what is going on in a person that only God knows the solution. The bible says that our identity is formed by being loved by God. So the number one reason for a parent to reach the child is if the parent is experiencing Gods Father love on a daily basis. I do not believe anyone can get the love across to the child by receiving it from anyone else. A good parent focus on how he understands Gods love. The reason that this is so important is because there is only one attractive quality that is needed and that is for a parent to show how to live in freedom from guilt, shame, anger and sorrow. I do not believe we can communicate this to a child by words. You cant fake freedom. Being free is more than trying to appear to be free. Ive traveled down the road of Freudian Psychology. In  fact in my younger years any thing that was presented to me that was complicated made me feel proud that I could repeat the mantra. I may say something psychological about a person as a diagnosis to try to communicate that in a cultural way but it is not my fundamental position. After focusing so much on the Psalms which is a book of counsel, Freudian Psychology has no basis in reality.    Reply Quote Notify

171  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Lonely David pleads for God's turning on: August 16, 2014, 07:07:51 PM When David is speaking of being alone it is in the context if suffering some kind of adversity that has turned him inward. He uses extreme statements because he is describing how he is feeling rather than God being in control and it will be ok. In the American culture we approach problems by dividing them up and identifying them. We try to attack them one by one. We try to incorporate something new in the personality. But in the Jewish culture it was to outwardly express what is going on inside. And you see how my talking about anger has already led to a miss understanding. I wasnt teaching that we are to take our anger out on the person who offended us. I was simply explaining an art form that we approach God with. I was trying to show that transparency before God is being able to describe what we are going through and how it has effected us. Our culture assumes if you do something in private that it absolutely must be exposed in public. But we see that David exposed himself in private and took on the personality of a troubled man. But it did not carry over into his public affairs. Most people in this culture are obsessed with being strong and unfeeling. It shows because we take medications to numb the anxiety and stress. But the Jews saw the struggle as being overcome by the curse. It wasnt that God was testing them but rather if God was God then they shouldnt be overcome with the outward troubles. So they approached it with anger because the experience was destructive. People in this culture do not start with the position that they are blessed and that means that being troubled is not acceptable. They seldom approach their struggles expressing anger. We see David understanding that Gods standard of relationship is always loving , faithful, kind and long suffering. He knew that Gods desires would consume his desires. So David was not afraid to show his transparency in describing the struggle as distressful as he could. Also when you read the portion like this and look at it in a purely academic way then your gonna focus on the words and conclude...look at this guy.. look what he is going through. But when you take his words and cry out to God with them then you experience healing. When I am describing loneliness it is in the context of me already experiencing healing by using the words. It is like a mirror. You use his expression and you experience a kind of new personality. Your led to focus away from those troubles. I looked in the mirror already and came out the other side. And thats how I write. Reply Quote Notify

172  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 16, 2014, 04:37:27 PM Quote from: Lone Arranger on August 16, 2014, 11:18:18 AM MBG, your posts on anger are a perfect description of an abusive personality type.  I'm not saying that you are, so don't take offense.  But I've been studying what makes people abusive, and the number one reason is desire to control (which, let's face it, is driven by feelings of powerless).  That desire comes out of a feeling of justification.  "I am right, you are wrong, therefore I can be enraged and take whatever action I feel necessary to keep you in line."  The more powerless you feel the more force you feel justified in employing.  That, taken to completion is abuse. I don't disagree with you re. God's need and justification to judge and take punitive action because God alone is holy and would be less than loving or just if He didn't do that.  I do seriously question, however, man's opinion on who is needing punishment and who is righteous - who we feel we have a right to be enraged with.  Even David, though flawed, cried out for God's action vice taking his own.  He could have killed Saul many times.  Had him in his hands, and would have been justified in the eyes of man in doing so for self defense, but he humbly deferred to God to act. Now, my question to you is, "What is the real reason you feel so powerless, and hence, enraged?  What happened 'way back when' in childhood that started it all?"  It may take great courage on your part to uncover and share this. Blessing, brother.       Yes I understand your confusion. I think your diagnosis of me is wrong. I am naturally passive and lacking strong identity. It took me 10 years to change the way that I naturally approach situations. Im a middle child and prior to my quest of memorizing the Psalms I spent most of my time trying to mend other peoples fences. I can say with confidence that I have changed. Let me show you some of Davids approaches and how he dealt with his anger. I can assure you that I am taking scripture and putting it into my own words. Ive spent so much time and energy meditating and musing in the Psalms that I do not even know myself in comparison to how other people talk about themselves in this psychobabble communication. I spend my leisure time meditating on the Psalms over and over and over again. I like to hear stories of people who excel in something because they have such a strong discipline in that area. I love to watch the Olympics because I see athletes practice their craft for 4 years for only 3 weeks of Olympic performance. I brag about being obsessed with the Psalms. I can say with sincerity that I do not think about a situation without first meditating on certain Psalms to get a pure perspective. I am a person who ignores situations... the trouble in the situation...for the sake of using the trial to motivate me to a more passionate cry. When most people naturally react to a situation I retreat into the Psalms because I have a different standard of how a person is blinded by their natural reaction. I watch how people get excited and i just muse at how easy they are drawn into a conflict. Every trial that increases in a persons life is usually because they get slowed down by taking all of these side roads. We must understand the kind of salvation that we have received.  When a person is saved they go from being a child of the devil to beings Gods child. All of the former communication that motivated them has changed. Gods salvation is so successful that we receive a completely new identity. We get that identity front loaded as you like to say. When the Psalms say that a person who meditates on day and nite will be successful in all they do it is not talking about our occupations in life. Its much deeper than this. Its talking about being translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. Are we just servants of this new kingdom? Not really we are kings of a kingdom in which God is the King. You know people get obsessed with opposing absolute control. And it is amusing to me to hear the other side talk about how they choose something first in order to prove they control their lives and yet when we describe inability they talk about how we are obsessed with control because we somehow feel inferior to God. lol. But anyone who is serious about the Psychology of David knows that there is a hiccup in this psychology of control. It is hidden in the text so that only those who apply themselves to understanding that most of the words are written as poetry and comparison they insert their ideas of the will. We know that David approached this idea of control in a specific way. The danger is that only go to the scriptures we like. We must see the whole counsel in order to understand how the Psalmist became willing. There is a kind of hiccup in the Psalmist view of control and this is why we get confused. The Psalmist first acknowledges his inability to do anything righteous. This acknowledgement extends to all that the Psalmist does. Not only in trying to do the religious exercise but also in the occupation of battle. How can a king be absolutely helpless and yet be in control of the world? How can a human king be in control of the nation and yet call God the King of the nation? There is only one way this can happen and that is both kings must be united to one purpose. Now this is impossible if you think about it. Because one king is sinful and the other King is completely just and righteous. This leads to the first conclusion. The king must acknowledged that God alone rules. In acknowledging that God alone rules the king must confess that the power is not in the military machine. Now this is one perspective of a multifaceted view. And if we look at through this one perspective it is the pure idea of control of the other perspectives. So when we see the king acknowledge that God alone rules and works to bring justice, equity, and faithfulness to a nation, we are acknowledging that king David is in absolute control. Because this acknowledgement is a pronouncement. In other words the king in confessing that God alone is in control is pronouncing judgement on the nations that reject God. Because the king acknowledges that God alone acts alone to rule the nation then he acknowledges that the king could not rule by compliance with the law. Instead the king confesses that he is worthy of judgement as a law breaker. Every time the law speaks the king must confess that he is worthy of judgement. But again this is not just in the context of a confession but a pronouncement. The king in acknowledging that he cannot keep the law pronounces that those who live by the law should have the whole law condemn them. This pronouncement is the motive for the king to make war with the nations. Because the law pronounces judgement upon those who live by it. Again we are talking about absolute control of Gods king. There is other perspectives but i will stop here.       Reply Quote Notify

173  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 15, 2014, 05:20:09 PM How do you kill the curse? Thats an oxymoron. lol Its gonna get worse as we get older. Try living your life as going to the doctor to hear whether you are gonna live or not. Thats 10 years etc of your life that has not yet happened. lol I mean the threat of death is gonna dwarf all of your younger struggles. When I say i am pushing it down i am talking about reducing its power over me. The more I push it down the more it is reduced. Ive lived with a lot of problems. But when i talk about pushing it down for 30 years im talking about living as if i could crush anything in my way. I do not mean with my physical strength but the level of spiritual power that I experience on a day to day basis that if it was reduced I would really suffer. I have a big appetite for spiritual power that I am used to. I normally feel like I am laid open. Its the experience as if Gods loving hands were tickling me. Its the feeling that whatever pain I experience is numbed by His healing hand. I feel so enlarged sometimes that I am looking around to see if there is an angel standing next to me. I feel swallowed up by God. Now Gods power works much greater in us than anything we can muster up. When I talk about pushing the curse down I am acknowledging my own inability. How does a person push the curse down? What can they do? Ask someone to pray for them? Tell a counselor they have these cursed fears, sorrows that are like a plague? The only way is for God to do it by His word and Spirit. We simply use His means to effect something that is beyond our sight and control. When I am talking about pushing the curse down I am describing the power of His word that I am experiencing. Im not talking about the physical makeup of the brain...the problems with chemical imbalance Reply Quote Notify

174  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 15, 2014, 04:25:52 PM The Father image is very important. Maybe I can explain it as the Father coming from the inside and not out there some where. Ive wrestled with this for a long time. But the core of any struggle is how we know our own anger because the Father image is our need of acceptance to be justified in our view of the lack of acceptance in these earthly relationships. The closer we are in relationships the more heat of anger we feel toward those who hurt us. When our anger is justified then we have a special interior connection to Father love. Everyone wants to have a perfect trusting relationship. Anything short of how we describe that trust is how much we react in anger. The Jews used to consider their family dead if they were not loyal to the religious group. The reason they did this was an expression of anger. To not be loyal to the cause was the same as murder. So murder was extended to the hate one feels about another person. I do not agree with the idea of disowning a son etc. But I think that the anger we feel is part of our experience of Gods communication in us. God has a righteous indignation. His anger compared to lightening striking a mountain and it is reduced to smoke. I believe that any disconnection we experience between us and our Father is because of hidden anger. Some people think that Gods love should overcome our anger. But Ive experienced Gods righteous anger consuming my personal anger. In the past few years I have experienced loss. Some of the loss is not justified. It has a real effect on life. So that situation demands that I confront my inner anger. When I apply certain Psalms to what is going on inside of me I experience a very hot anger. After going through the application i feel as if I get closer to justice. Justice represents God as Fathers attention to my need. But He has more anger than I do. It has been my experience that no matter how big the injustice is and how hot I can experience anger that His personal care for me is that I am reduced by the sheer magnitude of His anger. I begin to heal through this process.   Reply Quote Notify

175  Forums / Break Room / Re: When Christians sin on: August 15, 2014, 03:30:19 PM These kinds of statements are not just for teaching but they are pronouncing judgement upon the nations. The teaching is that if you are part of the elect you have received a gift. The gift is not just regeneration but it extends to everything you receive. It is part of Gods promise in the covenant of redemption. And in fact the Psalm that zeros in on this redemption covenant states that those who enjoy the out working of this covenant must fight to obtain it. Upon victory there will be no more breaching of the walls, no more going into captivity, no more cries of distress in the streets. So the church has a responsibility for maintaining cultural freedom. The state makes a covenant to protect the poor and the helpless and the church enforces it.  I mean that is how it used to be.  The teaching is that there is a righteous communication both political and religious. But when the wicked outnumber the righteous then the city is filled with anxiety, worry, fear, etc. The righteous cry out to God. God gives the righteous their desires while the wicked desires come to nothing. The church pronounces judgement upon the schemes of the wicked. The prayers of the poor and the helpless are filled with pronouncements. God acts upon the prayers of the righteous and the city is rescued. This is the context of the above verse. Reply Quote Notify

176  Forums / Break Room / Re: When Christians sin on: August 15, 2014, 02:51:46 PM One of the problems I have with focusing on the bad that sin brings us is that we are promised by God that we are no longer treated as our sins deserve. You look at the verse" Trouble pursues the sinner but the righteous are rewarded with good things." and think about what the Solomon is saying. Is he saying that when we sin we are pursued by trouble and when we are good we are rewarded? Or is he protecting the elect by making a fast rule by saying that the wicked are judged both temporary and eternally for their sin? This is a typical poetic statement of the ot Psalm book..also Job...stating a covenant promise that is both religious and political. I know people who make my distinction but then they will apply the two line theology to the verse. They will say that it is focused on the unbeliever but it can apply to a believe because we sin too. lol. Let me say that anytime we embrace a contradiction we will always end up at the same place we started. If you want to never move on in your christian life then embrace contradictions. You will think you have traveled a long way only to find in the end it was in a circle. lol I was talking to someone about this and I was trying to get my point across so that they would know the seriousness of embracing these contradictions. If you were suffering from an inward trial but the next day you found yourself in a war where you had bullets flying at you wouldnt you put the inward conflict aside and try to save your life? The fear of the war would make you forget the inner fear. This is sort of what happens to us when we become christians. We enter a conflict where we cannot go back to the lesser adversities. It no longer is trying to get to work the next day rather its being involved with a universal enemy. We find ourselves in the midst of people who want to silence everything that God has said. They want to destroy our new found faith. The truth is that Christ has accomplished a salvation that gets us through the door and now we are in the most peaceful, innocent, and non threatening kingdom. The problem is that even if we have all of the natural tendencies to remain in that rest we are surrounded by people who are trouble makers. We are in a place where power comes from a still small voice. The blowing of the wind. But the conversation of the wicked is noise. Loud noise represents anxiety, fear, sorrow and worry. Not only is that foreign conversation destructive to our faith but the conversation is directed toward us to destroy us. When the ot makes clear distinctions between the sinner and the righteous it is talking about the difference between a righteous nation and the other nations. It is two very different ways of communication.   Reply Quote Notify

177  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 15, 2014, 02:16:17 PM  I ve lived in my head all of my life. I used to be sensitive about the relationships I was in. I used to go away from a conversation rehearsing everything that was said and wondering if I had said the wrong thing. I do not know were I learned being comfortable with regret and shame but it was part of my early experience. I look back and see how destructive my thought process was. Anyway I learned to put the bad things i thought about in a box for awhile and just focus on God through scripture. I had a struggle at first because its hard to let old patterns of thought die. I now believe that there is not gonna be much change in confronting these bad habits but ignoring them and meditating on God. I began to enjoy God talking to me through scripture. So I would use scripture to experience the communication of Gods love. I cannot read other peoples minds but I can hear how they are talking and get some insight into what they are focused on. Most people occupy their minds with what they need to do on a daily basis. They make goals and think about the plans of the day. My problem comes when I explain to people how I learned to think. Its always how irresponsible I am in my focusing on big ideas and being lazy in my planning. I used to get frustrated at the reaction but now how I think is like being at home. Its just become natural because it feeds my motives so that I get the most out of whatever I am accomplishing. I tell people who question my philosophy that ive learned that I can create something in the future that comes back to me in my connections to things and people. I used to hear that the answer for worry and anxiety is that God is in control so why worry? It never was explained to me that God recreates reality and not just that He created all things. This creative artistic stroke by God is done through pronouncements. He makes promises and then He acts upon them. What I am saying is that God creates good by His spoken word. I think most people have a kind of natural disassociation to what happens in their lives and what God has said in His secret counsel about the events. I used to enjoy Disney movies. Where the witch would cast a spell on her victims. Why do people enjoy watching this kind of word to action association? I think its part of our love for redemption. We like to hear stories of people who we think are lucky to win the lottery. When we think about people who receive something that is too good to be true we feel good. What happens if God gives us words in scripture that kind of cast a spell? Did God just give us these words to challenge us to obey or did He intertwine them with His desires so that they move Him to act? Ive learned that there is a christian disassociation in how the average person talks about planning and doing. I think there is this whole magic idea that moves God by pronouncing what He has said. And I cant explain how it is accomplished. I just know that it inflames my motives, it gives me a feeling that God loves me beyond what I could think and it makes such a big disassociation from one day to the next of the natural working of things that I no longer feel the events themselves are as necessary but only how God is gonna create good from them. So even when I screw up i never feel as if it was out of order ...there was something I needed to hear or learn that is necessary for my good. Its total unity. Reply Quote Notify

178  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 15, 2014, 09:35:58 AM Its very short sighted of us to present ourselves as standing outside of the entire paradigm of relationships and create different categories of personalities with fast rules. When we seek to divide people into personalities and speak of them as parts that make up a holistic healthy society we view them as if we could control them. We need to come to terms with the absolute standard of God. If there is any defect in these parts then the whole paradigm is corrupted. To stand outside of oneself and view people is to see them as God sees them. This is why we seldom get to mystery. We do not attempt to apply Gods absolute pronouncements as the way to create healthy connection. If we are to experience the unity of all things then we must know who God is and who we are. But if God is totally other then we are annihilated. And if we present ourselves totally other then God is annihilated. We have corruption that is common to all. We can conclude that because God created us with a self it is the evidence of His self. So to be two separate selves we must express ourselves as God expresses Himself. If God is totally other then we could not value His expression of self. And if we were totally other then we could not understand ourselves. If we are to express ourselves in a godlike fashion we must be able to do it as individuals. If knowing ourselves is determined upon knowing God then we must express our will as God expresses His will. This is why I do not believe in worm theology. Worm theology is a teaching that since Christ has through His incarnation justly placed all things under His feet by His obedience and work on the cross then we have a future identity in which we receive all that Christ possesses. But if we are not fully identified in Christ now then we do not mirror Gods expressions as He created us. Is our earthly identity kings and priest or are we sinners who need other people to complete who we are? Do we rule now or are we simply parts of the body of Christ that are essential to the whole? If we are simply parts of the whole and God is the King of the universe then why did He give us control over creation? It would seem to me that our inheritance has been given to us and as we express our kingship then we are expressing how we are made by God. If the ot teaches that we are kings and priest of the Most High then why do we present this teaching as regressive while we are promised our full inheritance in the future? I thought we already possessed all that we are promised but we have not yet overcome all of the obstacles. It would seem to me that we are progressively becoming the kingly identity that was taught in the ot. If we are now kings and priest then this changes the whole structure of justice and equity. It gives us the full expression of self.   Reply Quote Notify

179	Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness	on: August 14, 2014, 11:35:56 AM
I dont believe you can truly understand these different areas of the world where you see trouble without seeing it as you deal with your personal struggles. So in a sense our being able to reduce the power of the bad that comes in our lives is determined upon the amount of control we have. This control is exercised in our confidence that good will win over evil. So those who live with this hope actually rule the world. I mean the reality of living in personal confidence will determine the weight of the worlds.curse than we cast off. In the OT the prophets pronounced a blessing on Gods covenant people in this distinct confession. It was their national expression of pushing the curse away. They would confess that God put the elect in exile to prepare a greater judgement to the nations while preserving His own people. Through this pronouncement the elect enjoyed Gods special favor on the worse of times. Gods invisible hand is seen most when the world is turned up side down. We can enjoy growing down in cheering God on as we can in the best of times. Ill fix the errors when get on my computer. 181  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 13, 2014, 09:03:32 PM ml i believe there are physical problems in the brain that presupposes that we will suffer from depression. I think Robin Williams had a problem with the chemical imbalance in his brain. I have a mentally and physically handicap son who is 27 years old and Ive experienced these kinds of brain problems with him all of his life. We can go through life with the potential to fall into depression but most of the time it takes a number of circumstances to kind of push us over the edge. What i was saying is that we try to take precautions by applying ourselves to understanding who God is and who we are. The better we know ourselves the more we are gonna be able to live with boundaries that are like preventive steps. I believe Williams was bipolar. I dont think a depressed person could get over the hump of depression and entertain people. I think he suffered from being motivated by the high he experienced as an entertainer and when he was not "on" so to speak he fell into depression. Im not bipolar but have suffered manic depression. Having spent so many years praying the Psalms I have experienced releasing my angry core and in this art form and feeling relaxed beyond my wildest dreams. I spent some time with a professional counselor in my early 20s and it was the same kind of feeling I got from pouring my soul out in the counseling session. It kind of faded as the the days passed and then the next session i experienced this profound release. But the Psalms are more profound.   Reply Quote Notify 182  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 13, 2014, 12:26:36 PM I do not believe that dangerous circumstances that a person finds themselves in is necessarily from a physical circumstance. I believe that any communication that is not supported by scripture has an accumulative effect on the soul. Any evil communication that we accept without discernment builds a hateful core in our souls. All of the problems we experience are real as we view them. We can unknowingly have a lot of built up anger that rises up in us and clouds our view of reality. Anytime we think incorrectly it is a hateful expression toward God. I believe that God has given us His word so that we can guard our hearts from accepting this hate that penetrates our souls like arrows. All of our anxiety comes from pent up anger. God has dealt with human anger in providing us with the ability to know our hearts by pronouncing blessings and curses. When we rise up to Gods pronouncements we experience the anger of God that consumes our anger. We are released from pragmatism by unburdening our anger. Our anger core is emptied and we experience the overflow of Gods love. This overflow can only be experienced when we have released our anger so that we are emptied of it. That is the value of the curses. Reply Quote Notify 183  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Loneliness on: August 12, 2014, 09:17:04 PM Ive suffered from depression in different periods of my life. I had it since I was 18 years old. I grew up in a christian home. My mom who passed away 4 weeks ago had 4 children two years apart at the age of 26. I had a very active mom who was a social butterfly. She could have played the piano professionally but she was more interested in raising us. Ive always considered her a super mom. Whatever we set out to accomplish as a family whether it was sports, church, vacation or any social event it always was successful. Ive always thought that behind the success was my mom planning it and interacting with the people involved to make it that way. She was very intelligent. She was extremely intuitive. She was a Newton. I grew up in a very active family both in the culture and in our family relationships. It was difficult for me to venture out on my own because I was used to doing everything with my brothers. When we began to go our separate ways I did not react well. I began to suffer depression. This is why I was motivated to memorize scripture. I look back and really believe that the scripture gave me an independence and a separate identity that I enjoy today being back together with my father, brothers and sister. I told my mom before she died that I had changed completely.  I did not look on people in the flesh so to speak. It was the 30 years of meditation that changed my identity. Being back with my brothers I see how I can enjoy myself and yet not lose my identity because of how close we were when we kids. So I escaped the loneliness of my kids leaving the house and not having any social connection to other families through the kids. All of these years of being separated prepared me so that I could enjoy my older years with people who care about me. Reply Quote Notify 184  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Performance Spectrum on: August 12, 2014, 08:10:21 AM I will.respond to this. Been busy. Reply Quote Notify 185  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All Upfront on: August 10, 2014, 01:14:08 PM Before I memorized the Psalms I used to think that beauty in this world was expressed through the appearance of cleanliness and uprightness. I did not really experience freedom. There was always this tension of acceptance that kept me from identifying with imperfection and the appearance of being dirty. I think it comes from this insinuation that since Christ standard is so perfect that He should not need to prod us but we should be pleased to live according to it. Its just the reverse argument that we dont rise up to the standard and its about time that we did. Just a little more subtle. All motivated by guilt. But when I began to curse the evil and the bad communication I was reduced to nothing. I saw the value in the need to identify with bad people and not be afraid that I was seen as a notorious sinner. lol  I wasnt afraid of what other people said of me about who I hung around with. I think I experienced the interaction of real freedom when I was reduced to be around people who had no hope. You see there is no need of grace for people who are perfect. Who needs grace when your philosophy is to ignore any appearance of being dirty? So we can grow down as Christ became a curse for us. We can experience freedom when we are closest to destruction. Because there is no space on this earth that Christ has not overcome. This is part of the identity of imputed righteousness. Reply Quote Notify 186  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: All Upfront on: August 10, 2014, 12:48:35 PM I agree that we are declared righteous. But the teaching of imputed righteousness is focused on identity and not belief. I do not think it is simply believing that gets us up to that high bar of Gods acceptance. Ive always wondered why people present the christian life as something that has been accomplished and then there is nothing that we can do to make it better but to believe. I do not think there is any human being who really understands what the standard of Christ righteousness really looks like. Nor do I believe that people show the real reality of Christ righteousness in this life. Could it be that we add more burdens on people when we simply say that the bar has been raised to a level that we cannot achieve so that we present it as if faith is not based in the reality...it is simply based in the addition of something that is weighty. And this should motivate us to be like Christ. We could compare this kind of presentation to a building structure. Before we are saved and declared righteous we look like the building that is in need of repairs and painting but when we are saved the building has been completely renovated and looks perfect. But how do we create a new found freedom in Christ if we say that our faith needs to rise up to the level of that perfect view? It seems to me to be adding burdens. The point being is that we are the desolate building that doesnt look perfect and the view of its being renovated is the righteousness standard of Christ that only Christ can understand. This is what the apostle says when he makes a bold and unexplainable claim when he says "who shall bring any charge against Gods elect?" It would seem to me that I could possibly make a charge if my faith rose up to the standard of Christ righteousness. But in fact there is no one who understands that standard and thats the reason there is no one on earth who can bring a charge. This is the universal problem that works to our advantage that if God should hold our sin against us then there could be no one who was found faultless. Therefore we come empty handed to receive the perfect standard of righteousness that works to make something that is run down into a golden city. But in reality it appears to be in need of renovation to all other men. This righteous identity comes from Christ view of us in which He makes claims about us that do not seem to be just in the view of all men. You see its not that the bar has been raised to a standard that is unattainable but its that the bar has been lowered enough so that all men have no excuse if every man was to stand before God in his own righteousness. And yet it is only those who know the building is run down ...that the standard has been lowered who are Gods trophies of righteousness. The fact that the bar has been lowered frees us from the weight of the standard of righteousness that only Christ understands. Reply Quote Notify 187  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Dead to Sin on: August 09, 2014, 11:55:26 AM Let me give you a personal testimony. When I was in my 20s i began to fill my mind with scripture. I thought that as I was accumulating the scripture that I would experience renewal and power the same way throughout my life. I had really high standards when it got to experience. Every day I would memorize two verses and then I would seek to keep what I had memorized throughout the day. This began to build so that I experienced power that I could not control. I could keep all of this scripture and meditate on it in my private world. It did not matter what situation I was in. I only had one thing that mattered. It was trying to experience the power of God through Spirit and word. So anything that was built up to my satisfaction had to be the production of power and confidence that flowed through me. I can say with sincerity that nothing else whether it was relationships, job, or recreation rose up to the level of importance that meditation did. In fact I would rather meditate and work, in my communication, at the track than do the actual deed. So I learn to live as if God was accomplishing everything for my pleasure and His glory. The experience in my mind was more important than the accomplishment. I lived with the confidence that God was preparing my next day with the utmost dignity and the highest standard that I could experience so that in my accomplishments I was lost in wonder. This is what I call finding the mystery and living as if all things were unified. And in my understanding and the amount of scripture I had memorized I had a standard that I began to see was being limited by growing old. So I see how unjust the world is. It never dawned on me that old age could reduce the experienced of this power. And with old age I began to lose my ability to keep the scripture that I had memorized.Oh how I long for the day when I will be made perfect and be justified beginning my experience on the level that I lost that experience of power. What could i do to stop this process? Absolutely nothing. It was too powerful for me to overcome! It is the process of death.You see the more I lose the ability to apply my own strength the more I depend upon the Psalms to hold onto that standard. I no longer want to experience life as if I was handicap. The power in my young age was more local. Now the power I experience in my older years is more universal. But there is nothing I can do to reverse the curse. Absolutely nothing. Reply Quote Notify 188  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Dead to Sin on: August 09, 2014, 10:55:13 AM I agree that we have everything we need. Some of the theologians say that we are living in a time where it is already accomplished but we do not yet possess everything that Christ has earned. I agree with this. But we have a responsibility to think correctly and then we will act correctly. Some people divide the already but not yet teaching. They will say that God has done His part and now its up to us to do our part. So they separate our personal discipline from God sovereign acting upon us by His Spirit. The bible says that since we died to sin we are to put it to death by the Spirit. A lot of people say that these terms " putting to death .. counting yourself dead to sin" are simply analogies of how we perform our disciplines. But we must understand how the whole of scripture uses these words both old and new testaments. So the act of mortification is more than a simple discipline to change a behavior. It is using the means to kill everything that opposes our faith. So when we put something to death it is in the context of overcoming all opposition. It is a military term.  It is more than a change in moral character. The apostle gives us a complete picture when he depicts this struggle as a war with the flesh and devil. He doesnt say that this life is in parts ...ie our responsibility and Gods sovereignty. But he describes our relationship with Christ as our ceasing to exist. We are not saying that there is a middle ground here having a context of our being in control of ourselves in our experience of annihilation. But we cease to have confidence that God needs our actions to complete His redemptive story. In killing everything we believe there is nothing that we can offer that is equal with Gods work. This is how we are taught to mortify the flesh. We must confess that its not in our power... an analogy to the most "trusted power" on earth. Which is military power. This is an extreme analogy. How big is this opposition? It is not our giving into sin over and over again. Its an opposition that is more than our wanting to be morally right. It is and opposition that is seeking to destroy our souls. This is a very narrow way to think. We do not have the authority to think that if we just avoid something... or we have someone holding us accountable that we are mortifying our flesh. We face a greater enemy. When Adam sinned he not only received the consequences for his sin but he began to experience the spiritual effects of his sin. He began to go through a process by which everything around him and in him was cursed. This human power was under the control of someone else. Man experiences ongoing limitations. Because of the curse mans self power is no longer significant in the history of redemption. Rather we always start from the position that we are dieing and there is no hope without cursing the curse. We face an enemy that is more subtle, more detailed, beyond time and space and is the cause of our fear, anxiety, anger, sorrow and pain. We must look beyond our own discipline and use the means to kill the curse that causes our experience of destruction. This is how we are to look at the commands and discipline.   Reply Quote Notify 189  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some errors in the beloved KJV on: August 07, 2014, 07:37:41 PM  Im not an advocate of simply doing the exegesis in a verse or passage and being confident that you can get a complete understanding. I do not believe you can simply say that your interpretation can be completely trusted because you go through selected number of scientific observations. I do not believe you can completely understand something that is eternal by putting the study in a box. Each word is God breathed. So this means that one word is the full explanation of all the words because each of the words are Trinitarian. But at the same time Gods vocabulary is beyond our understanding. Within each word of scripture is Gods understanding of reality. This is why every word of God is a creative word not just a word of instruction. God speaks and there is perfect order of all reality. God does not speak in a way of contradiction, lack of knowledge or without success. So God orders all things with the perfect order of words that are beyond our understanding. But God has give us enough of His words to understand how we are to live in light of applying His word to our lives. We can be confident when we apply one word that it is in the context of the perfect understanding of God. All of Gods words are right and just. He has given us these words in promises, commands , laws and decrees. He has spoken His word perfectly in applying the gospel to our souls. The scripture says that God searches our hearts by His word. Gods understanding of us is completely holistic. The way that He searches us is through applying His promises, commands, laws and decrees to our hearts. The way that He has written His word is in different forms such as poetry, analogy, allegory, and legal. We can say that everything that we are made to enjoy God has responded in perfect order and symmetry that is His desire for us. We receive this word through our desire being answered and fulfilled by His perfect response. We can say that God gives us the word in a form so that all of those who are on His side can cheer Him on to success. The perfect structure of His word as I have described is given to us as a pronouncement. When we pronounce His perfect word we experience the unity of one word in the spirit of all His words. We pronounce a new created reality.      Reply Quote Notify 190  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Free sins vs our part. on: August 02, 2014, 12:55:52 PM This problem is much deeper than a simple set of behaviors. We are plagued with a wrong view of the law thinking process in order to get to the truth. We want to introduce pragmatic reasons so that we have the power to achieve a standard of righteousness. As Ive said before that we have a view that is natural to our flesh which is that the other guys sins are more grievous...demand more accounting than ours.  We do not see this problem of being cursed with a power that wars against our spirit. I never got to the bottom of this love of self power until I began to see how prevalent the negative and angry power of the flesh was driving me to a blurred vision of a true christian image. When I began to think in absolute terms then i started experiencing "being" before doing. Our cursed temptations are what we fundamentally rely upon when we place doing before being. The bible is very practical. It examines our inward being. It draws a line in us between blessing and cursing. We do not naturally think that this problem with sin is as big as it really is. We sort of think that we have magical powers so that we can attempt to confess our way out of a certain course we have taken. We are naturally attached to programs and social platitudes. Its not natural for us to think that all men have a desire to destroy everything and everyone by their total depravity. We would naturally want to trust in man because it seems to be the only way that we will not experience alienation. It is so easy for us to twist the biblical description of this renewal and turn it into something that is powerless.       Reply Quote Notify 191  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Free sins vs our part. on: August 02, 2014, 12:29:20 PM "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Because of this the apostle is not saying there is a process by which we get forgiveness. Rather he is saying that we come into our relationship with Christ as sinners and we have the ability to know that we are sinners because we commit sins. If the apostle was saying that we get forgiveness by confessing our sins as the rite to have fellowship with God then we must be acceptable at some point because sin is the hurdle. But we confess that we are sinners after we commit sin in order for the truth to dwell in us. So the apostle is saying that we have a new understanding that we are sinners as the basis of our relationship with Christ. I do not think he is saying that we cannot practice sin in order to have fellowship with Christ. He is saying that we cannot fail because we have a simple solution. We cannot experience the fatal rejection of Christ because we always fall back on grace. Rather than saying there is some kind of atoning behavior that we should do to accomplish acceptance with Christ the apostle is saying that we simply agree that we are what we are gifted to believe and we are forgiven. So instead of the apostle saying that there is a difficulty with our being forgiven he is saying that our private confession represents freedom because it is not a work.   Reply Quote Notify 192  Forums / Break Room / Re: Evil/good = black/white? on: July 24, 2014, 05:07:02 PM Quote When you screw someone over in life, the person you hurt shouldn't be described as your "enabler". Gouda I agree ... I think people make up these words to describe something that is going on between people.  But I do not believe this is the primary problem. I mean we can describe a situation with words that may be a part of the problem but I think people can talk about deliverance and salvation in exact terms but when it comes to applying these truths to a situation they treat the bible as something that answers some things but not the practical things. No one likes to think of things in an absolute sense. We like to describe people as an enabler, or bi polar , or manic depressive but the bible describes only two categories. And I always say that believing the gospel is not really about being able to tell these gospel truths but its applying the gospel so that it becomes the primary focus. And all of these other ideas are just inconsistent as truths because they describe general situations but they dont answer all of the details about the people so that we distinguish one situation from another. This is the problem with this thinking. It describes a person in an image that is inconsistent with how we are to think about ourselves as christians. And we get this same kind of thing when we look at the ot characters of the bible. We are looking at these relationships in a purely psychological motif. But the bible is describing the characters in a much more sophisticated in light of Gods sovereign acts through both good actions and bad actions. And as I have been saying that when we are thinking about the history of redemption God takes us the truths that are too awful to contemplate and too wonderful to describe an ot saint in such glowing terms. This is what I have always been saying and that is at all times Gods view of man is in a pure line between blessing and cursing. This kind of view then changes the whole moral structure as God sees it. Because God blesses really bad people and He curses what seem to be really moral people. But we cannot play God. We do not know who is good enough for God to be blessed by God through us. We cant always say that because someone is silent in another persons discipline or suffering that it is inconsistent with what God is describing in that ot story. We must rise up to that line of cursing and blessing so that we are free to treat a person without putting them in our own box.      Reply Quote Notify 193  Forums / Break Room / Re: Pow! To the moon. on: July 20, 2014, 12:31:27 PM Anyone who teaches that the gospel is not a message that overcomes all opposition ie political, secular, or religious is lowering God. And in lowering God we lower all of His work done for us. We begin to divide life by separating counsel from the gospel. But we believe that the gospel is not just a message of the cross but it corrects all of the created purposes of God in recreation. The created purposes of God are all of His words spoken with perfect judgement, faithfulness, kindness etc that overcomes all opposition. So in this sense every relationship that we have in this life is described by God in a general sense so that God recreates our relationships by pronouncing His perfect judgements or blessings on how we confront these people in our history. So in this way God as our protector and mediator friend has eternal hands, feet, eyes and mouth as we pronouncement blessing and cursing in the path that we walk down. We have the power to overcome all opposition as we pray and pronounce His words. Im trying my best to describe 35 years of pronouncing. Reply Quote Notify 194  Forums / Break Room / Re: Pow! To the moon. on: July 20, 2014, 12:11:39 PM The point of salvation is to be delivered from this world. We are told to deny ourselves and take up our cross. But the cross is an instrument of judgement not pain. It wasnt how much pain was inflicted on Christ that showed His submission. He was a perfect sacrifice taking upon Him the perfect judgement of the Father so that He might be the perfect judge. I do not understand why people make this message a devotional message. These two liners describe the christian life in terms of enduring the pain. Their answer is the same... because Christ endured the pain then we can get healed by identifying with His burden of pain. But the cross is not centered on the burden but upon the judgement that was paid for us. We are not being delivered from selfishness. We do not believe in a contradiction. We do not believe that we are delivered by denying that we are valuable enough to be delivered. We believe that as we are delivered we overcome all opposition for our purpose and for ourselves. If Christ took the judgement upon Himself it wasnt so that evil could be shown as good because it was the reason that Christ saves us. Christ did not embrace the curse. Christ pronounced a curse upon the curse by hating the evil enough to overcome it. He did not show the power of evil by being overtaken by death. But He gave up His own life ..He did not embrace destruction. Christ overcame evil and the curse by being in full control as the judge on the cross. Anyone who practices destruction is abusive. So as Christ destroyed destruction by judging sin and the sinner on the cross so He greases the tracks of these wicked men.  In other words the cross increased the sinfulness of sin. The cross was the full expression of hate to sin and sinners.  In this way the hate consumed the history of all the hate of mankind so that it made it twice as bad in the judgement upon sinners and twice as good in the blessing of the righteous. This is why the He preached the curse in His work on the cross when all realities came together ...in judgment and blessing. When we curse abusers we rise up to the legal work that was accomplished on the cross. That perfect line between blessing and cursing. Deliverance is pushing the curse away so that we overcome all opposition. Reply Quote Notify 195  Forums / Break Room / Re: Evil/good = black/white? on: July 18, 2014, 04:37:07 PM Ive discussed this in the past. We are what we think. The principle is that if someone judges us and tries to create an image of us that my be true ...being that we are sinners ...yet I do not believe that we must think like others think of us. And so the people who usually judge or make absolute statements about our weaknesses are usually the people who are making statements about the ones that we overcame and they find new ones. Its human nature to play the accuser. The point is that as long as we are on this earth we are gonna suffer the evils of others. Is it all determined by what kinds of friends we have? I dont believe so because Christ said of the sinners that they were more free than the self righteous because they felt unable to overcome their problems. So I believe in some ways that when we put ourselves out to be better than other people it is because we are neurotic. The christian life is not a life were we avoid the bad and focus on the good. Its being able to take Christ everywhere in the spirit of completeness. If we just saw Christ as the ruler of His church then we would think that He was only present among the people that were visibly on His team. If we saw Him as only the Savior of the world then we would not be able to enjoy all of the times we spend talking about things other than salvation. But if we saw Christ as the governor of the world then we would think of how He rules by His attributes in all corners of the earth. Its best for us to see Christ as the governor of all mankind because we need to find unity in all things and all situations. Christ is not just in the morally good activities. He is also present in the really dangerous parts of the world. Because Christ anger goes spreads the the most violent and angry societies. Christ anger consumes all anger. Just as Christ love consumes all lesser loves. The reason that we are not fundamentally a victim is because Christ word addresses the violent as well as the innocent. He has already rendered the most violent powerless to destroy a christian. How has He done this? By simply doing something in the past that will not matter on this earth? No He has pronounced judgement upon the abusers of this world. As we pray these pronouncements then as ambassadors of the governor we are making a way of success for the gospel to go out to the most dangerous parts of the world. God is always just and rite and if there is no remedy for our being taken advantage of ....we will be vindicated on the day of judgement.    196  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Free sins vs our part. on: July 18, 2014, 03:36:40 PM Let me explain the other side of this since some have probably not read what ive written.  Anyone who says that the curse is not in effect is experiencing some kind of restriction. He hasnt learned to express his relationship with the Spirit in real freedom. Where the Spirit is there is freedom. We are to live in the gospel. The gospel describes what God has done for us to free us from the power of darkness. We have become completely new. But since we experienced the powers of this world, and the power of the law  before we were saved then we have in some ways become addicted to what we trust in and who we are. In order for us to be more and more released or converted we must place the work of our salvation into Gods hands. There is only one way that God changes us and its through His love. His love consumes our old habits. But if His love was only directed as if we were the only ones in the world then it wouldnt be expressed in defending us as well. So Gods love is also expressed by turning His anger away from us. If God has done all the work necessary for us to be changed and go to heaven then it must be done through His justice, equity, faithfulness and kindness. It cannot be through words. It must be done by action at all times. Any time we lower God to not have a rite to curse and bless absolutely we are saying that He loves us with emotion and He is no different than a man. So when we exalt God we rise up to the line of blessing and cursing. We know God as a God who either pronounces life or death. We become free because we place our salvation in Gods hands by living in the experience that it is too good for us to imagine and it is to awful for us to contemplate. We are loved by God who turns His anger away from us.    Reply Quote Notify 197  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Free sins vs our part. on: July 18, 2014, 03:17:06 PM We use words to describe our experience. The bible explains our experience with words. The problem is not just a matter of speaking of our experience as the same as what the bible is describing. This matter of growing in the christian life is not tied to making our description of our experience by using bible words but its gaining enough knowledge so what the words the bible describes about our experience are within the context of all the words the bible uses. This is simply what I am doing. I am taking the words in their proper context and connecting them in such a way that they give us the true description of our experience. When I say that anger is at the bottom of all of our troubles is because when man fell into sin God cursed everything. A curse is simply a display of Gods anger. What did God do to us as a result of the curse. He took away our ability to be at peace within ourselves. How did we lose our peace with God? We began to experience guilt, shame, sorrow and anxiety. God did not just curse us with guilt because we sin but He added sorrow upon sorrow... an inability for us to respond in love to Gods anger. So our anger is directed outward and inward. We call this either getting even or having self inflicted wounds. Some theologians say that guilt is good because it is a response to the voice of the law. And since we are law breakers we need to experience the sorrow of guilt in order to turn to Christ. Let me say that any man who is able to grow through this process is lying. All men are cursed with the view that its the other guy who needs to experience the guilt. The only time ive seen a man really experience guilt is when he is visibly destroyed. He would sin and there would be nothing to say. This whole topic about how much guilt we need or how much shame we experience in order to go through this conversion is useless. Why is it useless? Because even tho God cursed mankind with guilt etc He also cursed those people who blame. Now at first glance this seems like a contradiction. How can God curse those who blame and still condemn men for sin? Now listen to me. God had to take care of the problem in Himself for some men. What did God do to end the blame and curse for some men? Did He simply do the work through Christ? Not really. He also forbids men to come on their own terms. God put the angels with flaming swords around the tree of life so that no man could eat of it on his own terms. God did not just offer redemption to man but He made it impossible for man to come on his own. If man is a universalist at heart then at the point where he thinks a person should be part of the elect is stating that his own reasons for God to choose this man is better than Gods reasons for the man to die in his own sin. So the problem is that man lowers God by putting Him in a box. This is what the apostle was addressing when he says that it does not depend upon human effort or desire but upon Gods mercy. Then the apostle says that if this seems harsh then who are you to talk back to God? What the apostle is saying that God has a pure line between blessing and cursing at all times. God doesnt make exceptions because of what we want. Why is God seem so harsh? Because He knows that the curse is still in effect. God knows that if we take the decision into our own hands then we would never come to terms with our own anger. We in essence would curse ourselves.  In the back of our minds we would still be untrusting of Gods decision. This is at the bottom of all our problems in dealing with the curse in us and in the world. Ive explained this in detail in my teaching on coming to mystery. Reply Quote Notify 198  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: in need of prayer on: July 16, 2014, 05:26:41 PM Quote from: toadbat on July 14, 2014, 01:54:28 PM Quote from: mybigGod on July 13, 2014, 08:38:44 PM Hang in the klab...i just lost my mom and sometimes i do not think there is an answer. Just praying for strength for you. Mbg, I do not know if you posted this on another thread or not, but I will be deep in prayer for you brother. Thanks TB... My mom told me the gospel when I was 7 years old and I was baptized in Riverside Baptist Church the following week. She had the gift of evangelism. She constantly shared her faith and it has born fruit in my brothers and sister. There were some rough times in our family but we have all grown past these problems. I spent some valuable time with my mom in the last 2 years. God was gracious to give me time with her. She was a very strong lady. Our family surpassed most families as far as having good relationships. It was because of moms social gifts with people. When it came to showing submission in her relationship with my father there was no one like my mom...that is a fact. Mom was a Newton... very smart and talented.  She fought death like no one ive seen. Im gonna miss her but i will see her in heaven. Reply Quote Notify 199  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Free sins vs our part. on: July 16, 2014, 05:03:35 PM Kk I believe that our sin is secondary to our circumstances. I do not believe that because of our sin we suffer. I have meditated on the Psalms for 30 years and I believe there is good reasons for a christian to take the curses seriously. Most theologians reject the teaching of the curses. But in my opinion when they do this then they make sin the main reason for our troubles. Ive lived the experience of the Psalmist and I have never thought that my sin was so big that it prevented me from always being in the reach of resting or being successful. So I know for a fact that the Psalmist experience of guilt and shame was when his circumstances were sorrowful and then he experienced his sins piling up on him. He did not receive conviction for his sin and then get relief through confession. If you have been as far as I have in the Psalmist experience you will see that he had much bigger issues to deal with than his many sins. This is why I reject this whole teaching that sin prevents fellowship with God. The Psalmist did not approach God as a guilty sinner who needed relief from his trials. He approached God as a lawyer using these different arguments in order to be successful in all of his trials. Anyone who goes through trials knows there is something that in us that creates anxiety. If you were to be meticulous in you meditation you would find that its not the confession of sin that creates peace. The only reason that a believer experiences guilt, shame, anxiety, and sorrow is because of anger. Anger is like the acid to a persons body and spirit. When a person experiences anger it is the only time he losses control of himself. There are many reason a person experiences anger. Most of the time its because there is a loss of some kind. It could be financial, family , or personal health. Every person has a need to feel accepted. Acceptance comes when we experience success. It could be acceptance from other people or it could be experiencing a sense of personal wholeness because we are successful. The problem with anger comes when we experience adversity to our personal success. Its amazing to me how people regress because they do not want to admit they are angry with someone... or some situation or with God. The anger just gushes out into all areas of their bodies and spirits. Its like fighting a losing battle. It eats away at life. I have written so much about this problem. It is the fundamental problem with stunting christian growth. I will explain further how to deal with this problem.       Reply Quote Notify 200  Forums / Prayer Requests / Re: in need of prayer on: July 13, 2014, 08:38:44 PM Hang in the klab...i just lost my mom and sometimes i do not think there is an answer. Just praying for strength for you. Reply Quote Notify 201  Forums / Break Room / Re: Labels on: July 13, 2014, 08:15:35 PM Once we are saved we no longer have labels that stick. The law no longer defines who we are. It ceases to be our master. And you see the Psalmist respond correctly when he prevents the christian from going back to that old master. The Psalmist says that his sin is like everyone's sin. The Psalmist recognizes that the lowest position for a christian is to acknowledge that everyone deserves judgement. The point being that there is no one who stands above people and is able to be the judge. This acknowledgement is the psalmist repentance. In other words the Psalmist says that God has placed the Psalmist in a position of blamelessness and in exalting God the Psalmist does not place himself as under Gods judgement. This is the advantage that a christian has over all other men. Even tho the christian sins he does not separate himself from the value of Gods work done for him. In repenting the christian pushes the curse away by distancing himself from the condemning voice of the law. We are able by Gods grace to always start from the level of knowledge that we have grown. We do not need to go back to step one. So the Psalmist says "If you were to hold sin against me than who could stand?" What we need to understand is that God is absolutely just at all times. God doesnt work to fix people. God is not a God who rehabilitates people . God always speaks in absolute language. In every situation we are either delivered or judged. There is no in between description of how people are transformed. The reason that I am absolute in my doctrinal position is because it is the only way that we can describe true unity. God doesnt appease us so that we agree. He must overcome all opposition. Our battle is not about who is right. If we believe things that are false we are kind of like spiritual zombies. Because we are talking about salvation being the healing agent by describing the precise image of Christ. We start out believing that we can be transformed by our religious work. But God has made this life so precise that its like standing in the middle of a place where china is stored. One false word and we destroy a lot of china. We are like a bull in a china shop in our natural desires.  Reply Quote Notify 202  Forums / Steve Brown Etc. / Re: About Control on: July 12, 2014, 04:03:48 PM I wouldnt trust a guy on the most personal level unless he has used this redemptive language in a mediator role. Because the words of scripture are arguments. I dont mean arguments in the sense of a need to be true but arguments that recreate the future. How can anyone know what these words mean if He is not experiencing this oneness as a result of his arguments? This is why religion is so dangerous because we use these words in distinguishing the difference between our controlling others and Gods truth. This is why I spent years using these ot arguments in this m editorial role   Reply Quote Notify 203  Forums / Steve Brown Etc. / Re: About Control on: July 12, 2014, 03:07:01 PM I do not believe anyone has control over their own life. The ultimate control is to do everything for Gods glory. But there is a difference between desiring to do everything for Gods glory and experiencing everything as a legal evidence of Gods glory. God always does things for the rite reasons. He is always true, just, and faithful. So we can say that we should do everything so that God is true, just and faithful. What does it mean to experience everything in our lives in oneness with Gods glory? If we fail in any way then we are describing our story as untrustworthy, unfaithful and unjust. But this is the interesting thing about how God describes us with absolute control at all times so that we can be secure. He has saved us by planting the seed of regeneration in us. This seed is eternal life. But God doesnt give eternal life as just being outside of time. But He gives us the blessings that come with eternal life. So the seed is Gods word of deliverance. This word of deliverance is the description of the entire blessed quality of life that we enjoy that is based upon Gods kindness, faithfulness, justice and compassion. This seed is a perfect story of our lives. It is part of Gods story of redemption. When our experience matches our understanding of this perfect story that dwells in us we experience completeness or the highest control of our lives. The problem is not that we need God to have more control and us less but its how we view what He has already done on our behalf and how we experience this perfect redemption coming together with our view of our lives. This is why God has given us control by experiencing the full oneness of our humanity with our spirituality. Our problem is not that we need to distrust our humanity so that we can experience forgiveness and redemption but we must express our frustration because we do not understand this perfect redemption story that has already been given to us in its fullness ...from beginning to end. The more we understand the bigness of this blessed story that is in us the more we will experience the need to experience this blessedness. The more we experience the need the more we see our lack of control which will cause us to call out to God so that we experience the unity of this redemptive story that He has spoken in us. As we envision the true blessed story the more we are gonna enlarge our humanity and spiritual qualities in this one desire to experience the unity of His redemption with our experience. When we experience our full humanity and spirituality united with His redemptive story then we experience real control.       Reply Quote Notify 204  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Free sins vs our part. on: July 11, 2014, 03:52:38 PM Kk this is not high thinking. Its biblical words that we should focus on. We should set our minds on things above not on positions, agencies, list of things to do... on this earth. The goal is not to be a better husband, wife, or occupation...its to be like Christ. This means that we should be so full of scripture that we bleed it. The christian life is not about doing a little better. It not about us focusing on how much better we are as the world defines us. The world is not defined by how we control our lives. Its defined by what God is doing that goes beyond our little view. Most of the things that we are concerned about are only real to us because we have a small view of God. When we have a bigger view of God then we become concerned about bigger things. We over look the faults of others. We do not really have a mother or father on this earth. Our Father is in heaven. We really do not belong to a company, church, or any organization. We belong to Christ. The things we possess on this earth do not show people how valuable we are. We possess all things because we are in Christ and He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Why should we be overly concerned for our well being when we are the object of love from a God who controls all things? He simply opens His hands and satisfies the desires of every living thing. If we understood how good God is then we would let go of the things and people of this world. (Im talking about coming to mystery here.. the line between cursing and blessing.) Reply Quote Notify 205  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Futility on: July 11, 2014, 03:31:26 PM I know people who have had problems with addictions all their lives that I have great respect for as christians. I do not believe that one sin will keep you from Gods favor. The truth is that everyone who experiences rejection in some form try to medicate themselves. Whether its an addiction that we can clearly see or a trade off as an idol form it still is medicating yourself. So the end of the christian life is not defined by that one sin but its living in an understanding of being forgiven. The best christians sometimes are the ones who sin the most. Because they have a better understanding of forgiveness because they have more to be forgiven for. I think Christ made this point very clear.   Reply Quote Notify 206  Forums / Break Room / Re: Why it's wrong for a Christian to feel guilty on: July 04, 2014, 11:52:58 AM God has provided the way for us to walk from the beginning of the world to the end. This means that He has saved us so that we cannot fall out of this path. How can He keep us on this way if we sin? He has provided grace. The power to hold us from going off this path is grace. How can you fail if grace is greater than sin? You see we are proud enough to describe our problems as related to the individual sins we commit but God knows there are destructive powers that are too great for us to deal with that go beyond our relationship to our own sins. This is why God describes Himself as a shepherd. A shepherd is not just concerned to keep His sheep in the fold. But the Shepherd is concerned about the total health of His sheep. He protects the sheep from the bears, snakes, and on a personal level from disease. He is not just purposing to deliver them from sin but from the curse of sin as well. Salvation is not simply deliverance from sin but its experiencing conversions in Him delivering us from all of our enemies both within and without.  God has provided the success through doing all the work necessary in order for us to walk this road. He has already taken care of all of the adversity. And He has given us the success by freely giving us all things. So when we walk down this path we may stumble but we can never be captured. This means that our sin is taken care of in grace so that our experience of being ensnared is to judge the wicked and provide greater blessing for us. How does Christ argue for sinners?... He proves His love by blessing those who deserve to be condemned.   Reply Quote Notify 207  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Looking @ Universalism.... on: July 04, 2014, 11:24:48 AM Quote from: Kings_kid on July 01, 2014, 01:29:17 PM Yes, the connection isn't clear to me, either, mbG. But here's a question.  If God is in complete control, of everything, with no possibility of "free choice", then it seems very reasonable that He would in the final analysis save everyone, because His nature is love. However, if He is perfect love (as He is) then He wouldn't force anyone to love and serve Him eternally against their will, and that leads back to allowing/empowering people to choose whether they spend eternity in absolute union with Him, or absolute separation from the Source of Life. So it would seem, on the surface of it, that believing in a totally sovereign god who didn't allow any real choices or freedom of will, would lead to a belief in universal salvation, even though Scriptures do not unambiguously specify that in any detail. If we say that we are successful because we choose within our limits of knowledge, understanding, etc then our experience is limited to our own description of that experience. But if we choose something because God has gone before us and chosen perfectly then there is no limit to our success. Our reasons for choosing something would go beyond our personal limitations. The bible describes a godless man as choosing with showing the success of his own limitations. This is a man who makes himself his own god. In modern lingo it is a "self made man". There is no requirement of illumination from God.. there would be no application from Gods view. If God is God then He knows the beginning from the end. If God knows the beginning from the end then He must be successful in all the details that describe the history of it. If God lowered His description of the events to our view of them then He could never be just in how He proves Himself. In our view of Gods sovereignty we believe that our successful choice is how God describes this history.  Reply Quote Notify 208  Forums / Break Room / Re: Why it's wrong for a Christian to feel guilty on: July 04, 2014, 09:44:09 AM Guilt is from blame. So if we are no longer blamed then why should we experience guilt? And yet we do things that we feel guilty about whether its from a faulty conscience or a trained one. But for the christian there are truths are essential and other lesser truths. The bible talks about our lives describing it as the old things that passed away and all things becoming new. God tells us what we are and we become what God has said. When we speak of someone who is a believer we are required to see them as completely new. CS Lewis did not believe that the curses in the Psalms were necessary. He said there was no place that kind of hate in the christian life. But the fact is that as long as we live in this fallen world we are not only having to deal with our own pain but also with the adversity as a result of the curse. When we are in the new world then there will be no more curse. The question is what is guilt? Is guilt part of Gods plan to bring about good? No guilt is a result of mans first sin. Guilt is not constructive but its destructive. If guilt is destructive then it is harmful to anyone who experiences. I do not believe we can simply say that all of the harm we face is a result of sin. Sin always points to the person who is responsible. But guilt is an emotion as a result of sin. So guilt is very pragmatic. God has said that He will remember our sins no more. Why would God not cause us to experience guilt by this promise? Because God doesnt destroy His own. The general cause of pain and suffering is sin but it may not be what is opposing us when we apply it to a situation. We are also being opposed by the curse of sin. What do we do when we experience the curse? What has God said about the curse in regards to a believer? He says that Christ has become a curse for us. We who are in Christ no longer are under the curse. We no longer are under the power of destruction. The way that God works good from our sin and pain is to pronounce a curse upon destruction. Christ is not simply our high priest but He is speaking on our behalf. Christ is not only our atonement but Hes our righteousness. He speaks in a way in which He argues for us so that we wont experience destruction. Salvation is not simply delivering us from evil but its also healing us from the adversity of the curse. Reply Quote Notify 209  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Twin Truths--God's absolute sovereignty and human responsibility on: July 03, 2014, 05:47:45 PM I was  trying to think of an illustration of how foolish this thinking is. I remember working with the generation who had just got back from Vietnam. I was young enough to at 18 to not be drafted into that war. But I used to be interested in the war so I guess i pestered them to tell the stories. I remember being frustrated when they would talk about the rules of that war. To make it short... one of those rules was that there was an imaginary line that the US troops could not cross. So basically we were advancing to destroy the enemy and then retreating to obey the rules. I remember the story of them talking about taking this one hill and then having to give it up again only to climb the hill again to take it. The reason was because they had to keep the rules. I believe this is a perfect illustration of two line theology. Ive got to go will draw parallels to this when i get back. Anyone who has studied philosophy knows the law of non contradiction. It basically says that something cannot be both true and not true at the same time when dealing with the same context. In other words as it relates to two line you can be guilty and not guilty at the same time in the same context. You can be active and passive in the same context ...you can have the potential to be complete spiritually and not complete at the same time in the same context. And yet we teach in this way that lacks real logic and boast that we have the highest standards of truth. Anyone who teaches contradictions teaches that good is evil and evil is good. If you say that we are both good and evil at the same time in the same context ...i mean being able to choose between two equal powers as the definition of free will ..then you are teaching that we are grasping for the wind..you are describing no real experience of success or failure in our lives. Reality is that we are one person describing one experience. We are not trying to imagine that we are on top of the hill and at the bottom at the same time. The christian life is using language to describe real reality. What we say with our mouths is what is in our hearts. When we glory in contradictions because we hold to two line and then condemn the "mystics" we are just being hypocrites. Two liners live in the imagination showing God is just because there is a potential love and hate relationship that He offers. If He could potentially act then we could never have real hope, faith, love, and unity. We could never trust in a personal God. We would be describing Gods care as a wish rather than an action. The two liners teach God as the guy who carry's the carrot. Always teaching that we are to be on Gods side. But we know that in personal relationships it must be an equal description of give and take. But we know that God shows salvation by purposing to make us completely successful as we want. Reply Quote Notify 210  Forums / Break Room / Re: Why do men hate women? on: July 02, 2014, 11:14:28 AM It may not be an issue of weak and strong. God is absolutely rite and just at all times in His judgements in using both the weak and strong. In Gods view weakness is exalted. But I do not believe that God causes us to be weak for destructive purposes. Rather He does it for our protection. In a sense He is opposing the reasons that we are weak. He has given us a way to fight our own weaknesses. How do we survive if we are satisfied with being weak? Grace has provided us not only with a way to endure weakness but to use weakness for our own benefit. We are not to avoid the negative in order to become stronger but we pronounce Gods words in order to overcome the negative. We can compare this struggle with weakness to wrestling. A person who is able to pin his opponent is efficient in both defending himself and knowing how to maneuver his body in order to gain an advantage over his opponent. Our defense is not passive but its being able to get ourselves into a position to pin our opponent so to speak. If God has worked everything at all times in all places for the good then He has justly declared it to be so as He speaks from the highest position of judgement over all the earth.  When we become to weak to defend ourselves is when we are farthest away from Gods absolute pronouncements. In this way it really doesnt matter what role we take as we view our society. There is no experience in the unity of purpose in our lives until we rise up to Gods absolute pronouncements. The only unified experience is what God has pronounced about us and our society. Im not a guy who argues that God has put boundaries on every creature and it is best that we stay in those boundaries. Because I think that is secondary. God goes beyond the words of scripture to a more detailed communication of the working of all things.If in fact anything exist or changes its because God has ordered it through His perfect understanding and justice. In a way God has given us the general proclamations as our petitions that are the spirit of what is mysterious in His more detailed language. He has done this for our protection and survival and not really for Himself. We can be sure that if we rise up to that line of blessing and cursing everything will be put in place both weak and strong. He consumes the limits of our experience of being in His more powerful Being. We do not need to depend upon the "rules" as a way to control our environment.