Well,
Learning to Learn, what I meant was that I don't think God predestines
one person to heaven and another to hell, at least not in the way that
idea is usually proposed. It's more like what happened with King Saul or
(back in Exodus) with Pharaoh. Jesus gave Pilate and Judas every
opportunity to do the right thing. The whole question of predestination
is actually the question of God's supreme will vs. man's will. I think
it's the wrong question. My personal experience is that when I made the
decision to accept Jesus it was by my own free will, yet now, looking
back, I see that God actually chose me. He's been guiding my life, even
when I was ignoring Him. Yet I positively know that I made the decision
for Christ. How can it be both? Well, maybe it's the wrong question. The
facts are that 1. God is supreme and 2. I have free will. That's what I
was thinking at 1 am the other day.
It sounds like you
are saying... i dont like Calvinism because thats not how i experienced
it. There are a lot of reasons we may decide from one day to the next.
Some that do not have any relation to salvation. We dont proof text
scripture by our own experience.
1. Calvinism is not scripture.
2. I am saying that God is supreme. Our human viewpoint shows us that we have free will.
3.
Adam (& Pharaoh & King Saul & King David & Judas &
Pilate & you & me) had every opportunity to do the right thing.
He chose to eat the apple.
4. The whole thing is God's will. He predestined the universe. So my free will is a part of that design.
5.
The question of predestination is the question of whether God's will is
supreme, or is my free will able to counter God's will. I think that it
is the wrong question. God designed us. He knows us. He knew what Adam
would do and so planned for a messiah to redeem us. He knew what Pharaoh
would do and so planned the Passover.
6. We see it as
'predestination' because of our perception of time. When God planned the
Passover, He did it when he planned the universe. Like I said before,
God is Supreme and I have free will. Trying to reconcile those two
points within the 'scientific' view of the world leads to confusion.
7. Whatever you finally decide, just make sure God gets all the glory.
I
am saying that your position on free will is not biblical. If i were to
tell you that the apple was blue... but it was also red then you would
say that these two realities cannot be in the same thing at the same
time. Your definition of free will is that man has the ability to be
free in the sense that God does not decree an event to pass ....prior to
man choosing for the purpose of the event to come to pass.I am saying
to you that your philosophy holds to a contradiction. Your view of
freedom comes from a cause that is not contingent. You are teaching in
your view of the will being free in having two equal choices without any
prior inclination..... that the expression of free will is no will at
all. At the same time you are presenting a God that does not exist in
the working out of the action as a succession of events that are real
events in time. So that if you put all the events in time in an ordered
sequence then there is no connection in time to the purpose of Gods
existence and mans choice. In essence you are denying the reality of
being in a causal sense.... in the reality of time. If you want i can go
further on my explanation. Or maybe some of those who have been taking
participation in these disagreements can bring in further explanations.
WH....
you dont need to simplify with me. I can accept the connection between
what you believe and what you practice as the focus. I know you like to
separate the practical with the theoretical (i use these two terms
because i dont think you are offering me a Theological position.)in
order to use it as an argument for your position in your contradiction.
But really ... dont be afraid to ask questions. This is very complicated
as we spend all of our lives focused on the gospel and great amounts of
time studying it ... so that we will not drift away. Thats what the
reality of the gospel is as well as simple.
Ps 33
4 For the word of the LORD is right and true;
he is faithful in all he does.
Is there anything that He does not do? The rest of the Psalm should answer this question. 5 The LORD loves righteousness and justice;
the earth is full of his unfailing love.
6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea into jars [a] ;
he puts the deep into storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the LORD;
let all the people of the world revere him.
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
10 The LORD foils the plans of the nations;
he thwarts the purposes of the peoples.
11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever,
the purposes of his heart through all generations.
12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD,
the people he chose for his inheritance.
13 From heaven the LORD looks down
and sees all mankind;
14 from his dwelling place he watches
all who live on earth-
15 he who forms the hearts of all,
who considers everything they do.
16 No king is saved by the size of his army;
no warrior escapes by his great strength.
17 A horse is a vain hope for deliverance;
despite all its great strength it cannot save.
18 But the eyes of the LORD are on those who fear him,
on those whose hope is in his unfailing love,
19 to deliver them from death
and keep them alive in famine.
20 We wait in hope for the LORD;
he is our help and our shield.
21 In him our hearts rejoice,
for we trust in his holy name.
22 May your unfailing love rest upon us, O LORD,
even as we put our hope in you.
I love this Psalm... its a sweet meditation.
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