Yes we grieve the Spirit every time we sin.
All of us grieve the Spirit. Even the unsaved can show the work of the
Spirit. The Spirit works with the word, the unsaved are listening to
preaching or teaching then the Spirit begins to show them what condition
they are in. Then after they have that working they either respond in
faith, or they begin to experience a legal conviction. Every time they
go back to their bibles the Spirit convicts them of their sin. So the
bible to them is a book of laws that lead them into utter distress. Some
people read the bible like a news paper. They like the moral part of
the bible. Their purpose for going to the bible is to get an answer
about some problems they are facing so its like a play book. Some
people read the bible in a family setting. Its like an answer book for
healthy living. They want to say they read the bible cause its a nice
thing .... good thing to do. Its like a hit and miss , and usually they
just want to read the bible , they dont like the teaching of men. They
live by the moral standard of conducting their businesses so that they
make a profit. Then they are usually big savers. They like to think that
religion is making them successful. They have big bank accounts and
they live on the security of that savings instead of living on
dependence upon God. Theres no problems in their lives. They have no
need. The teaching is usually directed in self transformation. They love
the practical advice. The reason they like it is because they can take a
position in society as a mover and a shaker. They use their own
epistemology to exercise their power over the ones who do not having
savings, are usually in some kind of low position in society and having
some kind of physical problems so that the stress of finances is always
an issue. There can be a general work of the Spirit like this. I mean
look at all the suicides now. The bottom falls out and then religion is a
failure. The law tells them they are an embezzler and a thief. All
their so call friends dessert them and they lose the love of their
families. Instead of being in a position where they have true friends,
they are left a lone. Thats what the nature of the world is all about.
Thats what good people who are believers go through. The ones who are
the moral and the movers and shakers ... you know the ones with the big
savings always are teaching the lesson of personal responsibility ,
while the Lazarus of this world are begging for bread. But the Lord
gives riches and He will protect the poor and the widows. He will take
the riches from the wicked and give it to the righteous. The Lord is not
like we think He is. He gives freely. But the Christians who
grieve the Spirit go through a mourning cycle. And as we mourn we begin
to be comforted. Our mourning is not from a self principle but is a work
of the Spirit. Its almost automatic. Our principle experience is to be
always seeing the worlds goods as unfulfillIng. We do not have a system
in place where we can gain a security by using some text in the
scripture to to show how righteous we are by our behavior so we can be
the witness that brings thousands to Christ. We have an automatic sense
of dwelling on the forgiveness and grace of God. So we do not offer a
lot of advice. Cause we cant seem to keep our own advice. We roll every
thing over to God and let Him right the wrongs. In this way we learn
what our purpose , the times we live in, the things that are a waste of
our time, and the goal of our living on this earth. Our eyes are leaving
us with keeping to the things that are important so we do not extend
ourselves so far that we cannot find an understanding of our direction.
We keep our heads straight forward , we do not turn to the rite or the
left. That is we do not allow ourselves to be directed by powers that
are going to take us off of our course. Not even the epistemological
gifted community. We are very simple with the Spirit . We focus
on one Object every day. We focus on one symbol every day. And we long
for one thing at all times. All of us are Calvinist when we go to
praying... we just talk ourselves out of it when we get up off our
knees. It would be much wiser to believe as our Lord promised that
whatever you ask in His name, He will do. In fact i dont think He ever
says when we pray that He will respond to us in a feeling of sorrow. But
when He expresses His feeling its because He is always acting in the
individual circumstance. Our hope is dashed by men who lack faith. We
are told that if we test God then we cant expect a miracle. That seems
to be the position of our natural cycle of thinking. First because we
always start to question when we lack the understanding in an
experiential sense that God is good , long suffering and unfailing in
His love. The reason He passes before us as this kind of God is because
we do not think that in our situations that are troubling that God is
going to be faithful as a natural predisposition. If we believed that
God was going to control the outcome we wouldnt lose hope in His
promise, and we wouldnt question Him for reasons. Its that simple. So
that a Calvinist doesnt entertain the power of human will in order to
increase His hope. All of that process is wasted on this earth. This
self will process is an exercise in regret, guilt, shame, fear, and an
over focus on the ability of man. Its natural for us to be blinded in
this area. Its as natural as it is to believe that God is absolutely
sovereign , a doctrine that some of us cant stomach , to our own hurt.
In a sense then if we were not as human as being subject to experiencing
this strong desire to dwell in this sinful paradigm, we could face any
thing, we could face any person who is does not believe that God is
sovereign and tell them the reason that anyone sins is because they dont
believe that God is near, the reason that anyone cannot get over the
distress is because they do not believe that God is sovereign. The
reason that people do not get along in marriage is because they do not
believe that God is sovereign. That is the fall back position. But that s
why we have the means so that we can go from questioning and dwelling
on our sin to experience His sovereign goodness in being forgiven, in
rolling those things over to Him, in seeking His gifts in our lives and
in being enabled through the means of grace to forget what is
behind...... that is a mystical experience of His sovereignty over all
things in this world. What ever self determination we entertain then is
making us go unfulfilled all our lives in the use of the means to be
living in frustration and regret mixed with a focus on our faith. In a
sense we never leave determinism.
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Forums / Politics Forum / Re: This is where we are
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on: January 07, 2009, 04:05:25 PM
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BERLIN (Jan. 6) - His spirit broken by
financial fears, German billionaire Adolf Merckle took his own life this
week -- becoming the latest high-profile casualty of a global economic
crisis that already has claimed the lives of executives in Europe and
the U.S.
Merckle, a respected businessmen with a wife and four
children, jumped in front of a train in the town of Blaubeuren in
southwestern Germany, officials said Tuesday.
His business empire had
run into trouble in the crisis, and its problems were compounded by
heavy losses in trading of shares in automaker Volkswagen AG. Merckle's
business interests included generic drug maker Ratiopharm International
GmbH and cement maker HeidelbergCement AG.
Merckle's family said in a
statement that "the distress to his firms caused by the financial
crisis and the related uncertainties of recent weeks, along with the
helplessness of no longer being able to act, broke the passionate family
businessman."
Authorities said he left a suicide note, but gave no
details. Merckle's death appears to be at least the third comparable
suicide in less than four months.
In September, Kirk Stephenson --
the chief operating officer of private equity house Olivant -- jumped in
front of a train at a rail station west of London. The 47-year-old
husband and father of a young son stepped onto the tracks, was struck
and killed.
A British coroner ruled last month that the death was
suicide, though the precise reasons remain a mystery. He left no suicide
note.
Two days before Christmas, in New York, Rene-Thierry Magon de
la Villehuchet, was found dead at his desk, both wrists slashed and
bottle of pills nearby after his fortune and the money of his loved ones
vanished along with his clients when he lost $1.4 billion invested with
Bernard Madoff.
The Frenchman's fund was among the biggest losers in
the Madoff fraud, and one of a handful to get taken for more than $1
billion.
"He was totally ruined," his brother, Bertrand Magon de la Villehuchet, told The AP in Paris last month.
"At
first he thought he'd be able to get the money back. He was very
determined. Gradually he realized he wouldn't be able to," Bertrand
said.
Dr. John D. Lucas, assistant clinical professor at New
York-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical College, said that the
men may have "considered themselves to be worth as a human being what
they were worth at the bank."
Dr. Charles Goodstein, a psychiatrist
at the NYU School of Medicine and past president of the Psychoanalytic
Association of New York, said Merckle could may been distraught over
other issues.
"We don't know those things, so therefore the economic
problems may have been the tipping point and that sent him over the
edge," said Goodstein. "To limit it solely to the issue of finance may
be a big mistake."
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The
information contained in the AP news report may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of The Associated Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted
by AOL.
2009-01-06 16:40:46
CHICAGO, Illinois (Jan. 7) -- One
of Chicago's most well-known real estate moguls appears to have shot
himself to death, police said.
The body of Steven L. Good was found
in his Jaguar on Monday. The car was spotted in a parking lot of a
wildlife preserve in Kane County, Illinois, just outside Chicago,
authorities said.
No note was found, and police say they do not know
how long the 52-year-old had been in the vehicle. .... "If you lined up
1,000 people and said pick the one that might do this to themselves, he
would be the last person I would choose," said Wayne Caplan, who worked
at Sheldon Good for six years and knew Steven Good personally. "He had a
zest for life. He has a wife and kids and he had so much in his life."
You cant put your hope in this worlds goods.
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5703
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Cleaving to God
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on: January 07, 2009, 09:40:56 AM
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This word usage in this verse about the
Spirits communication is not a connection to our petition, the level of
our sorrow, but its His communication to the Father on our behalf. Now
it does not mean the the Spirit does not work in us to bring about the
sorrow that we experience. After all the Father knows that we are but
dust, He understands our weaknesses. In t his way He is condescending to
us or His love is a pity love to us. It is a pleasure for Him to hear
our cries out of this weakness since He loves us in hearing our
petitions as if His hearing where responding to our cries in His time
and in His way. He does not wast time in feeling our groans. For we have
confidence that even tho we find in our circumstances that men do not
act on our behalf but men are always prone to watch at a distance, we
have more hope in Gods acting than man feels about the situation. We
find ourselves in our weakness as being desperate not only be all of
the enemies that surround us, but even that we cannot find a footing to
stand on since the moral state of men creates the paradigm that the
world is caving in below our feet. We are desperate because we feel as
if the world is swallowing us up. But God is on the throne, He is going
to save us by acting in our behalf. We do not need to take action on our
own as if we were desperate to keep ourselves from being swallowed up.
There is no amount of self power in order to keep the earth from opening
up below us. So we are cast into a state of weeping and groaning. We
wonder why God seems to be so silent. We read His lack of action as if
He were not listening to us. Our assurance is in His ability to act not
feel. We want all of these things in our lives to be rectified. But we
sink under the troubles so that in losing hope we grow weary in our
faith that God will act on our behalf as if He would speak the word.
Here we speak to Him, he seems silent, but He hears us by speaking the
word. Or He acts in His time. So that we are always made aware that we
can persevere because we dwell in a hope that our Father will respond to
us out of a desire not only for His glory but for our self
preservation.
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Two Distinct Justifications in Salvation
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on: January 06, 2009, 06:25:12 PM
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Thor, have you repented from all of your sins? Ok let me make this
easier. Do you have times where you are all confessed up and you are
assured that you have met the repentance standard? Do you see how far
repentance itself will take you in your assurance?
It doesn't
work that way. You’re making this into a one dimensional argument which
is Not what I have been saying. Oh! Did you read the scripture I
presented? Everyone said to repent. How do you argue against that? so that they never return to their former sins. We are not dealing Repentance
is a attitude of heart as well as for specific sins. I agree with the
definition of Metanoia... literally a change of mind (Meta=change, noia =
mind) That’s my understanding of repentance for salvation. Just having
sorrow for sin doesn’t mean you are turning around. A repentant life
recognizes their sin and acknowledges it to God. Some people may repent
for certain sins but they may not have an overall attitude of repentance
for their life (Metanoia)...in which case they are not born again yet. No
one trusts in their repentance for salvation! For those who have
accepted Christ as their Savior, assurance of forgiveness comes from
trusting the trustworthiness of God and the fact that God never lies. If
God says He will forgive all your sins if you believe in His Son then
He will forgive your sins and put His Spirit in you. The very moment you
trust Him, God forgives you and comes into your life. No delay it's
instantaneous. beacon2
Before
Christ went to the cross He prayed for the elect who He purposed to
give this gift of salvation to as the only reason for Him to pray in
this way....
Jn. 17:6
"I have revealed you to those whom
you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and
they have obeyed your word.
The word elect & salvation
doesn’t appear in this section or prayer. This is not a global prayer
for the elect to be saved. Jesus is praying for his eleven remaining
Disciples who already belonged to God by faith and who God had then
given to Christ for disciples. Jesus is praying that God will give them
eternal life (know Him). And in vs 20 he is praying for those who
‘believe in Christ through their message’...that they will be unified or
as one. The elect are those that trust and believe in
Christ. They are saved by believing on Christ as the Spirit draws them
when they hear the gospel preached. (Faith comes by hearing).(the Spirit
initiates the path to salvation...not man). You should agree with
that! Everyone who hears the Gospel is faced with the decision of
whether to surrender their heart or not...that is their choice, God has
done everything else except make the decision for you. Once the decision
is made and God places the seal of the Holy Spirit in their heart, God
has destined certain things to happen. All your sins are forgiven, you
are given eternal life, you will be resurrected to live in the land of
Israel. You know God and are made righteous and begin the abundant life
Christ promised. This is what is meant by predestined. But,
putting your hope in being pre-selected before creation or trusting in
being a descendant of Abraham or being circumcised as an official
proselyte will not suffice to make you saved. Those are not pathways to
salvation. Only trusting in the blood of Christ will save you. Thor
Some
of the meanest people I have met are people who believe that repentance
is just taking care of a list of sins. They think repentance is focused
on a change in behavior. The difference between repenting in this way
and repenting in the scriptural way is an attitude of the mind and it
doesnt necessarily make a certain sin go away for life, or make people
have a complete turn around with a very shallow explanation here. We are
dealing mainly with our view of God and our view of our own abilities.
In this sense it is more important to teach the attitude of the mind
through transformation than behavioral modification cause you cant
modify pride. That s why its an attitude of the mind. Just because it
looks like a christian and speak the christian ease doesen t mean its a
christian. But at the same time you can usually tell what the level of
understanding and ends for which they do things by what they say. In
this sense spiritual weakness is expressed in a hybrid Calvinism or
having a mind that reverts back into the natural semi plagenism. To
be a christian demands that i continue to see myself as having a
problem with my sin as i grow in His grace. In other words my view of my
sin problem does not get smaller, but it gets bigger. There is nothing
more distasteful than to read about someone who thinks they have done
some sort of program and then they have achieved a level of obedience
through leaving known sins and then they have an understanding of all of
the problems with temptation and the problems with understanding
forgiveness so that they have more confidence in their own ability to
work repentance than they are to acknowledge the utter futility of their
efforts. We share in His forgiveness and that makes our attitudes
toward one another who are struggling with sins to be an encouragement
and having the understanding of the number of our own sins. Repentance
is an attitude of the mind. We live a life of repentance. If
Christ was just praying for His disciples that is the 12 uh well , i
guess it was 11 cause the other one wasnt standing there at that time.
So he really wasnt praying for Judas then that is confusing. And these
12 were special disciples cause Christ later distinguishes these 12
disciples from the rest of the world of disciples, uh ..... oh .... am i
missing something here in your argument? I think it says that He prayed
for His own, those who were given to Him of the Father. And then He
extents the discipleship to include all of the elect. Cause there were
disciples before the 12 and there are disciples after the 12 . One of
them is one of the 12 in acts. Mathias. I am kind of meta physically
claustrophobic about your inserting the number and the time frame in the
text.
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5708
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Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Two Distinct Justifications in Salvation
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on: January 05, 2009, 06:20:54 PM
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At the same time grace is not just a net from
keeping us from falling into the pit of despair from self examination
but it precedes our willing to repent in order to repent. Grace makes
our desires His desires. So that the tension and anxiety is terribly
important to Him. And i do not understand His active presence since i
still have these sinking tendencies to fall into a general hardness. Now
He is not standing over me waiting for me to come to Him with a
contrite heart, but He is working that in me by my sin. Well how do we
find the balance for our discernment and our anger unless we have some
kind of relief in the proper desire. I mean that having a lack of faith
is not trusting in Him for what He has accomplished on our behalf in
providing this boldness that He wants to see in us. Non of this spirit
is perfect at any time. Our boldness is mixed with fear sometimes, then
with hatred sometimes, or with hardness sometimes. But we still are able
through Someone else s perfect boldness to enter into His presence with
a real experiential relief of the corruption.
Now i really do
not understand how He has made me grow in repentance through having a
confident petition, that is a petition that is pressing and is taught in
its spiritual force to the understanding of this corrupted confidence.
But we have the boldness to come to Him and describe our anxiety and
anger to Him. Now there is a Psalm where there is this desperation as a
cause of our rising to a confidence to call on Him for immediately
relief. There is the formation of this cry from the Psalmist that we can
cry and press Him in the cry to come immediately and at the same time
the Spirit has written it in such a way that we are overcome with the
inward explosion of sorrow and we are brought to tears. Then there is
the encouragement to leave this after our finding a place to speak where
we leave the strong adversity into His hands for a sense of having this
physical reaction that makes us feel as if we have rolled it onto Him.
Now we know that there is a sense in which if we take these things on
ourselves we will have His grace to endure, but there is another sense
that if we have come to Him with this kind of boldness then we are
experiencing a repentance of holding onto this. That is the other side
of repenting.
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