Thanks Jim, I know you are a Pastor.... i hope you do not take these things personal. But if you go to the book of Revelation then you will find the method of change . It is through reformation. We are all in a sense given the freedom to be decenter s. I know you believe the church is not ruled by earthly authorities, but by Christ Himself. Its funny because i do believe that fear of reformation brings a lack of real revival. Remember its always worse than we think it is, and its always better than we could imagine. So we are always tilling the ground of our hearts so to speak in a community sense. The worse thing we could do is to attack someone who is struggling with a certain sin who has been part of the mortification of sin by the depth of his reforming understanding and throw our allegiances to people who just fall for every wind of doctrine. We haven t begun to tap the level of religious fervor of the past. In a sense we should all be throwing up our harps on the trees and mourning all day long. Look at what the present state of communicating the gospel has come to. Its about the tithe, the campaigns, the authority of leaders, the system of religious transforming through following the standard of a lack of investigation and consciously wanting to focus on the details of doctrinal illumination. Now we have a sort of spiritual elitism where the learned are passing on all these endless word studies without a little pastoral encouragement. We must go back to the old standard of people who actually mortified their flesh so that their writings were filled with electricity and not mysticism and sentimentalism. Well we are getting ready for the world to give us a reality check. Reformation is coming the hard way. Oh... man ... i apologize for starting the thread before Jeff started it. Ok. give me your best shot there Jimbo. I dont mean to be disrespectful its more of an intention to be that you put your pants on the same way i do. If i remember the verse correctly.  

5686	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster.	on: January 11, 2009, 11:24:03 AM
Ok , we come before a loving Father who is able to do all that we ask or think. How does He accomplish this experience in us? He works in us to will and to do. Notice it doesnt say we work in us to will and  to do an He meets us at our wanting to do evil if we would only give it to Him. No He is the cause of our doing any thing. Why? Because we do not have the power to do anything good. Without me you can do nothing. But we have been given a new nature, or a new knowledge so that we begin to desire the good spiritual things over those things that would cause us to choose to do evil. This is the work of the Spirit. This is the struggle that begins when we find our spiritual longings to be more powerful than our longings to sin. We then begin to enter a battle between the flesh and the Spirit. Its not a battle between two equal forces of good and evil.   Since we were in a state of being spiritually dead in our former ways we did not have the ability to do good. Even tho we had the faculties to see the evil we did , we did not have the nature to accomplish the reality of wanting to do spiritually good. We only did things according to our understanding of what the law said in our own view of right and wrong. But when we received the Spirit we were given supernatural abilities to have connections to communications of  the Spirit through the word so that what we desired changed from a strict adherence to a set of principles we developed to hide our real inward experience of death, to now experiencing a whole eternal world of connections to the reality of new causes and means that are linked to the world of powers that we experience in the reality of the implanted word, that seed that was planted in us , or the new spiritual enlightenment to our minds, that new knowledge of as a spiritual desire or longing so that we experienced the eternal word of the living God, that comes from His throne, the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Our understanding of these communications have a real fellowship in the Spirit with the Father through the Son. We now have a new connection to knowing Christ not only as a historical figure, but as a personal Shepherd of our souls. We experience these powers so that we know were we can go to overcome our frustration of why we do not have a contentment in this world. We now are energized with power from on High. We now draw our energy and understanding from a source that is more powerful than we could envision in our own ability. 5691  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Romans and the Flesh Monster. on: January 10, 2009, 02:38:21 PM Thank God that His purposes are eternal and not of this kingdom of earth. And we can lay hold of His working these things out for Himself, by rejoicing in His power that cannot be thwarted. We have an interest in seeing that God does as He pleases and not according to what we think is best. That is why we can trust that He is faithful in all He does. Because He is so very powerful. God is to be worshiped according to His power . How can we experience this power that is eternally displayed in His judgments? How can we adore His goodness to dwell in this eternal longing of Gods judgments? We must worship Him as a God who cannot be thwarted. Since we worship a God who cannot be defined as by our worship then ,we know Him to be kind and loving by His faithfulness and not our unfaithfulness. We worship God who is faithful in every square inch of this universe. For God sees all mankind at all times in every nation and in every circumstance. We know God to be faithful because men still exist to bring Him glory beyond our ability to experience what they experience at all times in their worship. But God sees all men who worship Him at all times in all different time zones. God is going to have men worshiping Him for His power. There is nothing that we can do to make eternity disappear. There is nothing we can think that will make eternity less real. It is Gods power in His working that we cannot escape. In His presence is absolute resolving of every working that goes on. Reply Quote Notify 5692  Forums / Main Forum / Re: How to Survive Economic Meltdown on: January 10, 2009, 02:20:06 PM God is king of the earth . He must be praised accordingly. God cause wars to start and He brings wars to an end. His workings are like a great tempest that comes upon the earth. And His eyes are like fire, and a sword comes out of His mouth. Because God does as He pleases in all of the history of nations who begin and nations who fall. His power is displayed in His judgments. Thats why we are still before His mighty power. Here He deserves for the whole earth to bow down and worship Him. He deserves all men to depart from their sins. He deserves to be extolled , exalted, glorified in every minute of every day by all mankind. Because He is a God who is above the earth and there is nothing that moves on this earth that God does not bring into existence. God is the ruler of the universe. Sing to God oh kingdoms of the earth, sing to God a psalm of praise. There is nothing you can do to reverse the way the world is going. God deserves to be exalted because man is being shown to be just men. Gods works are displayed every day, it is the most beautiful display of power and might that we could ever lay our eyes upon. He does things by His power that we are helpless to do anything to change it. He rides the ancient skys above. His goings are from everlasting to everlasting. Who has consulted God? Who has taught God? Where were you when then mountains were formed? Where were you when God existed in eternity. Who can know the mind of God? Who can explain His goings and comings? God is going to display His glory through the whole earth so that He will subdue mens wills. One day all of this judgment on creation and on man will end and there will be perfect righteousness. There will not be one man who does not bring God the glory He deserves. There will be a worship according to Gods righteous pleasure. God will rule from sea to sea. But now He is going to be a God who rules by showing men His power to bring nations down and set other nations up. Give God  the glory in His sanctuary! 5693  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Freedom Of The Will Jonathan Edwards on: January 10, 2009, 12:30:27 PM Quote from: Y7H7W7Hs on January 02, 2009, 04:15:20 PM Hi there mybigGod, from a total "newbie" to these forums.   Your detailed thoroughness humbles my intellectual pride, since, like some others here, i get kind of lost in examining a specific leaf of a particular tree, the bug on that leaf on that tree, and the cells of that bug on that leaf on that tree.   Not to mention the molecules, atoms, electrons, quarks, etc. , of course. So, let's take a practical example for my impractical headiness.   As a recovering addict (of multiple types), my subjective experience seems to be like Paul's.   The good i want to do i too often don't do, and the bad that i don't want to do i too often do.   So it appears that i have a conscious will and a body/cellular/subconscious mind that opposes my conscious will.   (Weak spirit, strong flesh?) Thus it is obvious that i need a Saviour who can strengthen the godly will and weaken the ungodly will.   And Jesus has been slowly/carefully doing this for many years in my case.   (I am a living monument to the patience of God, it seems to me. )  And the "first step" in recovery from an addiction is to admit that personal "willpower" over the addictive substance or behavior has been destroyed, leaving the addict at the total mercy of God, which is the best place to be. Using the mindset of Edwards, can you explain the workings of this phenomenon?  It would be nice to just "reckon the old nature to be dead" and live as a "new creation in Christ", but i have difficulty doing this sufficiently and consistently.   Thanks for considering this. O man i just saw this soft ball? Man that was an intellectual exercise in reading your post and i hope you stick around. I got the gest of where you were coming from. I am a bit of a subjective thinker..... well ..... yes you can say that i am making excuses for my lack of practical application.... but if i want something from Him then ... i dont need the world of religion to describe how i am going to define what the practical explanation of getting past an addiction since if you want to describe an addiction then you got to go back a little bit in your reasoning and start at the "What i want to do i do not do." I think that is describing a wide number of secret addictions that we use to over come our addictions that cause us to be under some kind of substance. After all, if i am not correct my experience is actually my connection to my inward struggle. We Calvinist do not just describe sin as a number of outward addictions to be overcome by focusing on the end for finding our relief in getting past a particular addiction. We ...... now listen..... cause i dont want you to be deceived about yourself..... its coming from the horses mouth of someone who would challenge you all day long as to being on the other side of your particular love of outward conformity. This horse is going to disagree with you not play to your passion to discount the whole history of redemption. Remember i have been doing this for thirty yrs. I will pit my addiction to scripture against your addiction to counseling any day. Ok, i am addicted to pride..... but at least i know it goes that deep..... cause your just trading sins. Oh ... we are not all perfect.... so maybe you do good. I cant judge you but only by your doctrine. This is my definition to a trader to the doctrine of sin.  After all that is reality in light of history.  I just ask for a little respect, sir..... not the normal condemning conversation that you are used to. I can think and feel for myself. I am just asking you to stop lying about the historical significance of a man like Edwards. You could nt even tie his shoes.  If your so smart... I challenge you to a meta physical discussion. You may get an alien form of supernatural ism that attaches itself to your head so that your not always trying to show people your new clothes. hehe  This is so difficult , i really dont know who you are... maybe i was writing past you. Sorry if i mis interpreted your particular deli ma. I have terrible table manners.... I need to learn to eat with my mouth closed. 5696  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Jesus: The Sheperd of our soulsl on: January 10, 2009, 10:27:28 AM The least among the church , that is the poor and widows, the fatherless and the alien are the most looked after by our King. This is the heart of the Shepherd of our souls. The Shepherd is in the business of atoning and reconciling. If the world was a safe place then the sheep could not wander from the fold. But the world is full of wolves and the Shepherd knows what the characteristics of a wolf is. Because His fold is always under His personal care, for our great Shepherd does not have an authoritative disposition by how He speaks to the sheep, but He acts on behalf of the sheep in a redeeming way for the purpose of gathering the sheep as a group of the poor and the humble. The Shepherd is worshiped as Savior in order for Him to be served as Lord. This is the way of grace. The least among the church , that is the poor and widows, the fatherless and the alien are the most looked after by our King. This is the heart of the Shepherd of our souls. The Shepherd is in the business of atoning and reconciling. If the world was a safe place then the sheep could not wander from the fold. But the world is full of wolves and the Shepherd knows what the characteristics of a wolf is. Because His fold is always under His personal care, for our great Shepherd does not have an authoritative disposition by how He speaks to the sheep, but He acts on behalf of the sheep in a redeeming way for the purpose of gathering the sheep as a group of the poor and the humble. The Shepherd is worshiped as Savior in order for Him to be served as Lord. This is the way of grace.  Some of my initial observations are that the sheep are helpless unless the Shepherd acts on their behalf. They flee to the mountains and the caves to hide from danger. And its not really conducive to the way of how the world functions. This flock has a wide susceptible to be caught in danger. I am not sure if this is just a problem as a normal functioning of a spiritual flock. Just like our Lord declares that all earthly rulers are under His divine scrutiny and they have been found to be wanting, He is showing the utter folly of the working principle of the worlds philosophy working in His fold. So that He actually takes power away from those who declare their independence as a means to be their climbing the ladder of power in His fold. So that He actually works to strip them of their authority by them taking the authority on themselves. He does this by making the authority poor in order to identify with the poor. Christ rule is taking care of the least among us and He will rule in this fashion. There is a sense in which a doctrinal position can land you in His determining to bring about this functioning of humbling. I guess if there is a bit of universalism in this function then He will bring that under His divine equaling by His hand. There is going to be His working in order for there to be a proper functioning.  Then we have those who are fat and those who are hungry. This is so close to the Acts account that its scary. The church is not trickle down. Its not a structure. Its an organism where Christ meets the needs of His people by His bringing those people together with the different gifts with the different needs. This is the divine definition of the paradigm of shepherds determination to take care of himself over his sheep. Its a scary portion of scripture and it is impossible to achieve on this earth. Only Christ has achieved this level of shepherding. But i can see how Christ could hem the shepherd in by His liberal underpinnings.